In this episode of All Things Work, Julie Moore, attorney and president of HR consulting firm the Employment Practices Group, speaks with host Tony Lee about sensible approaches to workplace policy and how to avoid problems related to a romance gone bad.
People managers and HR professionals consistently say that navigating and enforcing company rules about workplace romance is one of their toughest assignments. In this episode of All Things Work, Julie Moore, attorney and president of HR consulting firm the Employment Practices Group, speaks with host Tony Lee about sensible approaches to workplace romance and how to avoid problems related to a liaison gone bad.
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Speaker 1:
This episode is sponsored by UKG. UKG offers HR and workforce management solutions that support your employees and transform your workplace into a work of art.
Tony Lee:
Welcome to All Things Work. A podcast from the Society for Human Resource Management. I'm your host, Tony Lee, Head of Content here at SHRM. Thank you for joining us. All Things Work as an audio adventure, where we talk with thought leaders and taste makers to bring you an insider's perspective on all things work. Today, love is in the air, as we discuss workplace romance. HR professionals say navigating workplace romance is among their toughest assignments. That's because the issue involves weighing fairness against people's right to privacy and the possibility of legal liability for the company if things don't go well. Surprisingly SHRM research shows that even as more employees are working remotely, the number of workplace romances rose during the pandemic.
One third of US employees say they are currently involved or have been romantically involved with a coworker up from 27% before the pandemic. So, now is a good time for HR leaders and practitioners to revisit their company policies on workplace romance, especially since many of those policies are lacking. Joining us today is Julie Moore. Julie is an Attorney and President of the HR consulting firm, the Employment Practices Group in Wellesley Mass, where she specializes in conducting workplace investigations. Julie, welcome to All Things Work.
Julie Moore:
Thank you, Tony.
Tony Lee:
So, are you surprised that workplace romance is on the rise even when more employees are working remotely?
Julie Moore:
That's such an interesting statistic that SHRM came out with. In some ways, no. The pandemic certainly changed our lives in so many ways. And I think it was an opportunity for individuals to say what's important. We spent a lot more time being isolated and thinking about the value of work and the value of love and friendships and all of that. And I think people really sought meaningful connections and we spent so much time with people we work with and we spent a lot more time during the pandemic on Zoom calls that, a slight uptick in the number of workplace romances really wasn't quite a shock to me.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. I heard one HR professional say they feel like they know their colleagues better because they've been invited into their homes for the last couple of years, through Zoom meetings.
Julie Moore:
It's so true. I look at backgrounds of Zoom and I look at the family pictures. I look at someone's artwork. I look at what their taste is like, and it absolutely exposes much more of a window into who that individual is. And, the more we see people, the more we can understand if there's an attraction or not. And, certainly there's a lot of chemistry with people at work.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. All right. So let's cover the basics first. Obviously colleagues, coworkers, they fall in love, it happens, but what situations must employers really work to avoid? Obviously, bosses dating direct reports, senior level executive dating junior level executive, what are some of the things that companies really have to try and avoid?
Julie Moore:
Well, from an employment lawyer perspective, what they want to avoid is legal liability first and foremost. Certainly secondary to that is the other adverse effects that a workplace romance can bring. But let's start with talking about the law. A workplace romance presumably is consensual. Meaning obviously both parties agree voluntarily without coercion, without duress, to enter into that relationship, but we need to evaluate, was it truly welcome or unwelcome? And if there's a power disparity, as you said, Tony, with a supervisor-subordinate, can it truly be consensual? That's a question that companies need to examine. And again, supervisor-subordinate, you've got an inherent hierarchical difference there. So, that's key to me. And certainly, if and when romance develops, you've got a secondary issue of how does that impact morale? How does that impact productivity? Is there gossip? Is there rumor about a relationship that truly is ongoing or even about a suspected romance?
So, there's a lot of perils and pitfalls that employers need to be aware of. But I think having it on the radar screen, seeing studies like what SHRM just produced and published is first and foremost, because it's top of mind and then the employer can start examining, "What is our policy? What fits for our culture? What's our size? What's our dynamic?" And then really deciding what type of policy should be in place.
Tony Lee:
So speaking of that research, 77% of employees say their companies don't require them to disclose that they're in a workplace romance. So, is that a mistake?
Julie Moore:
That's crazy. And I know in equal number, 77% haven't told their employer, [inaudible 00:05:16], romance. Those numbers are pretty staggering. Again, these studies raise appropriate attention. So, the employer doesn't require disclosure. I think that employer hasn't been burnt before, hasn't seen that there's a need to have a policy in place. And the policy can be, it's fine to kiss your coworkers, that's fine. Or the policy is, everything is banned. You can't be involved in any relationship at any level. So, I think that HR professionals and employment attorneys should really raise the issue with employers. And I know when I'm asked to do training at an organization, the first things I ask for is a copy of the policy on sex harassment. I like to expand it to unlawful harassment based on other protecting categories.
And then I ask what their policy is on workplace romance, also known as fraternization nepotism, because it's really important to know because, when I educate about sexual harassment, one of the key components is its unwelcome behavior. And, if somebody is flirting or asking somebody out, making a proposition, is it welcome or unwelcome? And is it permissible under any such policy? So, employers need to do better.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. And you're hitting on the tipping point. There are all these romantic relationships going on that no one is disclosing and no company seems to know about until something goes wrong.
Julie Moore:
Exactly.
Tony Lee:
Let's take HR. Should HR be proactive trying to frankly, fret out relationships or what's the best approach to this?
Julie Moore:
Well, that's a tough one. As you said, at the outset, you're balancing privacy versus all these other considerations, fairness and legal liability, all of that stuff. So, I don't want HR to be the romance police and knocking on doors and offices and asking about things. That's intrusive and that's not going to help the workplace, especially at a time where talent is scarce and you want to maintain a really positive workplace with the best employees you've got. So, if there's a suspected romance going on with somebody where there's reason to believe that romance is not truly consensual, then I think HR should treat that as any particular concern or complaint is treated, which is look into and investigate it. Absent notice or knowledge that there might be an unwelcome relationship going on, I think being proactive about having policies and doing training is the way to go.
So for instance, if you're rolling out a new employee handbook, a lot of employers have dusted off their remote working policies, for instance. With the US Supreme court decision, [inaudible 00:08:06], that talked about sex discrimination, including not just male, female, but gay and lesbian workers and transgender workers, it's time to revisit those types of policies as well. Similarly, it's time to say what type of workplace romance or fraternization policy is appropriate for our organization, our size, our culture, and then communicate that, train on that. And I think that's a great way for the employer to take appropriate reasonable steps, to inform employees about what the policy is. And, if, for instance, the employer policy states that employees in a relationship, if their subordinate-supervisor need to report it, then, they're putting the employees on notice that's what their obligation is.
Tony Lee:
So, what about a consensual relationship that doesn't seem to cross lines, love contracts? What should HR do to make sure that when things, if things go bad, everybody's protected?
Julie Moore:
Yeah. That's a great question. Love contracts have been around for a while. And they can mean different things to different people, but the way I interpret a love contract is, is really something that's prudent for an employer to do. And so what that means is it's an agreement, it's not a legally binding contract necessarily, but it's an agreement. It's something that's in writing. And when things are in writing, we know they're often more meaningful. So, that's an opportunity, whether it's peers involved in a relationship or a supervisor-subordinate, or somebody from HR or finance involved and somebody where the employee wants to be particularly careful, having a contract that each individual can examine and sign and affirm to is helpful.
And so, the contracts that I've seen certainly say, "Okay, I confirm this relationship is consensual. It's voluntary, I'm willingly entering into it. And I fully understand that the company has policies that prohibit unwelcome sexual comments and conduct in the workplace that could be considered sexual harassment." And so employees can affirm that, "I'm going to act professionally. I'm going to act appropriately, no PDA in the workplace. I'm going to refrain from anything that could be a real or perceived conflict of interest or favoritism." Things like that. And most importantly, if or more probably when that relationship ends, that the employees agree to report it and that they absolutely understand that they've got an obligation to speak up, if for some reason, this relationship is no longer welcome, because that's a liability issue, we don't operate in a risk free world. So, I think having a love contract can really be the way to go in a lot of circumstances when you've got a workplace romance.
Tony Lee:
Okay. Well, it sounds great. Now in practice, I'm sure you've seen instances that some of the criticisms of love contracts are, it says that there won't be any conflict of interest or help, but if a fellow employee perceives that one partner is helping the other partner in their job in some way, perception is reality, right?
Julie Moore:
You bet it is. That's one of my lines for sure. Perception becomes reality.
Tony Lee:
And even in a love contract, you may have situations where people define love differently. So, I guess there's no fail safe method. It's the best option? Are there other options? What do you think?
Julie Moore:
Well, I think that's a very solid option. Short of that, it's monitoring. And again, that's perception as well. How are things going? Periodic check-ins, asking people how things are working out. Just like whenever I investigate a harassment or discrimination complaint, I advise HR or manager, "Be more visible. Walk those hallways. Be available if somebody wants to speak up." And as you raised in your hypothetical, what if somebody does perceive there to be a conflict of interest? I think HR or whoever's in charge needs to have eyes and ears open and respond to that, because perhaps a love contract or agreeing that a workplace romance is permissible, it doesn't mean you can't reexamine it and make modifications as needed. So, if employees are feeling there's favoritism or a conflict or pillow talk, sharing of confidential information, better opportunities, whatever it is, that HR can take a step back and say, "This isn't working for us anymore."
Tony Lee:
So, let's follow up a little bit on what you were saying before, just get the rules out of the way. So, we've made it clear boss-subordinate doesn't work. And anyone who really has an influence over someone's career probably doesn't work, even if they're not their direct boss. What about just people who work in the same department together, where they're together all day long, every day? Are there other guidelines you would suggest?
Julie Moore:
That's a philosophical discussion that the employer can say for two hourly workers or two salaried employees at the same level, so to speak, in the same department, "Do we agree that the pros outweigh the cons?" So you have to start there and if the employer agrees that, "That's okay. We're going to let it happen, monitor it. Make sure there's no PDA." Oftentimes the most successful workplace romances, the ones that people really don't know about it, but it's not purposely kept underground and people haven't failed to disclose it. So, just make sure that things are going as smoothly as possible. Many coworker relationships aren't all happy all the time. But I think just being aware of that relationship and considering, "Do we need to do anything differently?" Is the way to go. Just certainly monitoring.
Tony Lee:
Now, not all companies are created the same. A big hierarchical company is very different than a small family owned company. And in fact, family owned companies often have married spouses working together. So the rules bend, how does it work there?
Julie Moore:
Yeah. And that's a great point. As we talked about culture, you have to look, there's, I don't like the cookie cutter handbook policies. There's not one size fits all policy. So while it's fine, when drafting a policy to take a look at a handful of fraternization policies, it really needs to be tailored to what this workplace is. And so, a family owned business is going to have maybe mom and dad, maybe some siblings, children involved, whatever. So, knowing that at the outset, it is what it is. And the employer needs to be aware of, what works for them and doesn't work for anybody else. So if they're allowed to be related, are they talking out of two sides of their mouth when they say that employees can't be related? You know what? They set the rules.
If it's a family owned business, family controls. And I teach my clients, we have to abide by federal law, by state law. And then your internal house rules. You can draft them, you can say what works for you. And certainly any family owned business or large Fortune 50 company should consult with their HR professionals and their outside employment or inside general counsel, but to get appropriate advice to what works. And what I like to do is have a committee make some decisions about what's important, what works for us, maybe get people at management level, executive level, line work, or level to give some input as to what the best policy might be. Sometimes consensus driven policies work very well.
Tony Lee:
It's a great suggestion. Have you ever seen an example of a company that's just basically said, "We do not allow workplace relationships." And it's effective?
Julie Moore:
I have seen it. Yes, I have seen it being ineffective because, at the end of the day, I'll choose love over a job any day of the week. And so, they'll lose people. And in this type of economy, we don't want to lose good people. And so, it's really a conscious decision that's made, weighing all the factors, "What do we think works best and what are lessons learned from others?" So, I think the more educated employers can be by, this great article from SHRM and the podcast and other attention that's brought to the issue, the better decision making can take place.
Tony Lee:
Okay. You referenced earlier members of the LGBTQ community who may be in a relationship in work and they may not want their sexual orientation known by others. How does that come into play in this situation?
Julie Moore:
Yeah, a great point and it is what it is. And I think at the end of the day, legal experts will say that everybody, regardless of your sexual orientation, your gender identity expression, the same rules have to apply, regardless, you don't want to give differing treatment because then you're opening yourself up for a discrimination complaint. So I get it, a lot of us don't want to be revealing our personal and private life to our employer or to others. We all know that a lot of people keep cards close to the vest. But if the employer policy is, "You need to report, if you're involved in a romantic relationship." Then that rule applies to everybody.
And that begs another question, as you said earlier about, what is a relationship? How do we define that? And I just finished an investigation at a college where it was defined as sexual relationship. So, other times I've seen employer policy say, "Personal relationship, romantic relationship." So, is that a one time hookup that might take place in the office after hours on a business trip? Does that mean two or more three times? Does it mean kissing? Does it mean sex? Who knows? But again, careful drafting of policies can try to avoid the ambiguity there.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Well, that's terrific advice. Well, that is going to do it for today's episode of All Things Work. A big thank you to Julie Moore for joining me to discuss workplace romance and what HR should do to avoid legal ramifications of a romance gone bad. Before we get out of here, I want to encourage everyone to follow All Things Work wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, listener reviews have a real impact on a podcast visibility. So if you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review and help others find the show. Finally, you can find all of our episodes on our website at SHRM.org/podcasts. Thanks for listening. And we'll catch you next time on All Things Work.
Speaker 1:
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