Host Anne Sparaco discusses the unique challenges experienced by military spouses with Allison Chamberlayne, Director of Operations for Hiring Our Heroes, which connects military families with meaningful employment through initiatives. They explore the unique challenges these individuals face, such as frequent relocations and limited job opportunities, and discuss the importance of creating inclusive programs tailored to their needs. Chamberlain shares insights on the valuable skills military spouses bring, including flexibility, resilience, and strong work ethic, and highlights the role of Hiring Our Heroes in connecting military families with meaningful employment. The conversation emphasizes the benefits organizations can gain by tapping into this dynamic talent pool and offers guidance on strategies for effective recruitment and retention. Each week, All Things Work explores the latest workplace topics. Get the latest episode, along with additional resources and expert insights delivered straight to your inbox each week by signing up for the All Things Work newsletter: https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/flagships/all-things-work
Host Anne Sparaco discusses the unique challenges experienced by military spouses with Allison Chamberlayne, Director of Operations for Hiring Our Heroes, which connects military families with meaningful employment through initiatives.
They explore the unique challenges these individuals face, such as frequent relocations and limited job opportunities, and discuss the importance of creating inclusive programs tailored to their needs. Chamberlain shares insights on the valuable skills military spouses bring, including flexibility, resilience, and strong work ethic, and highlights the role of Hiring Our Heroes in connecting military families with meaningful employment. The conversation emphasizes the benefits organizations can gain by tapping into this dynamic talent pool and offers guidance on strategies for effective recruitment and retention.
Each week, All Things Work explores the latest workplace topics. Get the latest episode, along with additional resources and expert insights delivered straight to your inbox each week by signing up for the All Things Work newsletter: https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/flagships/all-things-work
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Anne Sparaco:
Welcome to All Things Work, a podcast from SHRM. I'm your host, Anne Sparaco. In this week's episode, we are going to be talking about why military spouses may be your answer when it comes to retaining that talent pool, and we're going to dive into the unique challenges they are facing and why it's so important to bring them into the workforce, and how you can bring them into the workforce. Joining us to talk about this today is Allison Chamberlayne, director of operations for Hiring our Heroes. Welcome, Allison.
Allison Chamberlayne:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Anne Sparaco:
Wonderful. Can you tell us a little bit about your organization and its mission to let our listeners really understand the core of it?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah, so Hiring our Heroes is part of the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation, the nonprofit arm of the US Chamber of Commerce. We were founded back in 2011 in response to the veteran unemployment crisis. So, back in 2011, about 50% of all veterans would leave their military assignments and go straight to the unemployment line. So, as part of the Chamber of Commerce, the America's voice of business, we were in the room to help combat that unemployment. So, we were founded back then, and we were really meeting veterans in the unemployment line.
As we have grown as an organization, we've moved what we call left of transition. So, we're helping prepare veterans before they transition. Our mission also includes military spouses, military caregivers, gold star spouses. So, we really try and to help all of the military community achieve that economic opportunity.
Anne Sparaco:
It's impacting so many people. I don't think people really realize how many military families there are across the United States. You've been with the organization for several years now. Can you tell me that personal connection that you have to this organization, and how it's maybe changed your perspective joining?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah, I was a military spouse myself. I still consider myself a military spouse even though my husband transitioned back in 2018. As we moved around the country in the world, I was just taking jobs here and there. I've worked in logistics at the Port of Charleston. I have worked at hospitality, and I have worked in accounting, all these different fields. When we finally settled into the D.C. area, I was working again another admin type of position, and I saw a group on Facebook of military spouses, and someone shared a position that was with Hiring our Heroes. So, I started as a part-time coordinator there, and have worked there for the past six years going up from a coordinator to a full-time manager, deputy director of the Military Spouse Fellowship Program, and now the director of operations.
So, it's really been a fulfilling journey, not only to have a position that suits my skill sets, but also has such great impact in a community that I'm personally a part of.
Anne Sparaco:
It really drives it home for you, this mission, right?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah, exactly.
Anne Sparaco:
You talked about how the organization really helps veterans and military families. How exactly do military spouses fit into this mission? They have so many unique talents and experiences.
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah, exactly. As I've mentioned, we started in the veteran space with hiring events. We would go around to all of the military installations, and connect veterans with companies for meaningful employment. Just as we grew and developed, we couldn't ignore the military spouse population. Most American households are dual income, and so military families are missing that piece of the American dream is to have two incomes to support their family. I mean, there are so many different challenges that our military families face, and so we've thought it very important to include military spouses.
I think that's... One of the messages I'm sure we'll dive in deeper about is that the same programs that you might have for veterans, you can't just add and spouses into there. There are some unique challenges faced by military spouses, and so we've really developed a lot of programming targeted specifically to that population.
Anne Sparaco:
Can you dive deeper into some of the challenges that they face? Give people a perspective walking into the home for a military spouse.
Allison Chamberlayne:
So, first off, and the thing that pops into most people's mind is moving frequently. The average military family moves once every 18 to 24 months. So, by the time they've landed in a geographical location, got the kids in school, unpacked all their household goods, we've got a couple months gone by. The clock is ticking, and we know that it takes about 90 days to even six months to find a meaningful job. So, by then, you're halfway through your tour, and looking at the next move. So, it's been... Portability is such an important piece to military spouse households.
Also, I would say that in this particular work dynamic where the service member is on call, basically, 24/7, 365, the majority of the caretaking in the family falls upon the military spouse. So, the need for flexible work options is so important. So, flexibility and portability are just really important to a military family.
Anne Sparaco:
That actually segues really well into SHRM's military spouse report research. A lot of findings in that is really targeting how military spouses are not getting the best opportunities that they can be presented to them or not being offered the flexibility that they need. A lot of organizations reported in this research that one of the problems is that portability issue, because they're constantly moving, and there's a lot of changes that could be unexpected as well. Can you reflect on that a little bit, especially from your perspective?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah. So, back before Covid, we always used to refer to the millennial, so how long will a millennial stay in their job? The average was two years or sometimes even less. So, we're saying that military spouses are no different than your average millennial employee. Well then, Covid happened, and we realized that we can all work remotely. So, that's a great opportunity for military spouses. So, we all know that we're making a shift back to hybrid and on location work, but I think the opportunity that remote work offers is that portability.
I don't think any military spouse objects to going into the office on location, but what they want to know is that they can keep their job no matter where their spouse is stationed. They want to grow in their careers just like any other American, to have that chance for promotions and additional responsibilities and additional pay.
Anne Sparaco:
In the military spouse report, we found 84% of organizations reported they do not have a concrete strategy when it came to recruiting this this tap talent pool and military spouses. Can you reflect on that, how you feel about that and how Hiring our Heroes is trying to essentially change that or help people go around that?
Allison Chamberlayne:
As I alluded to earlier, I think what a lot of organizations, they do have dedicated programs for veterans. They're trying to find the veteran. They're going to job fairs on site, on military installations. They have skill bridge programs, which is a DOD program that allows the veteran to experience military employment, or get trained to take a civilian job before they actually retire or separate from the military. So, they do have programs to take advantage of that veteran population, but it's not a cookie cutter fit for a military spouse.
Then, looking in the other direction towards the spouse, it's very easy for a veteran to self-identify. I think a lot of job applications ask if you are a veteran or if you're a protected class or something like that. That's not a a simple question for a military spouse. So, the first lesson is, "How do we find them if we are wanting to actively recruit them, and then how do we self-identify?"
Anne Sparaco:
Right, and SHRM really prides our company on the fact that inclusion should be at the forefront. That means you have to think of very different perspectives, very different types of people in different situations. So, you mentioned and opened up that perspective, not just veterans and not just military members, but their spouses as well because they're tied to it very closely. They're greatly impacted, and a lot of people may not even realize it, or they may not be able to accommodate it because they may not have the resources for it. That is something our military spouse report has found so much in. We also found that there's a lot more to military spouses than people realize.
Can you talk about some of the superpowers that military spouses have that people may not even be aware of at this time?
Allison Chamberlayne:
I think self-reflecting is... Myself as a military spouse, I think my superpower is absolutely my work ethic. I joke all the time that I can do in three days what most of maybe my colleagues can do in five. So, we really just have a very, very strong work ethic. We are not used to waiting for someone else to come in, and do this for us. We know that our spouse is focused on mission. If something's going to get done in the house, it's going to be on me. In our communities, we are willing and able and frequent volunteers. So, we're the ones that are going out into the community and getting things done.
So, work ethic is the top one. Then we're born project managers, whether it be from moving overseas or making sure that your children have the right resources at school. Whatever the case may be, we're just born project managers for sure. Then leadership, we always think about the veteran in terms of being strong leaders, but it's true of military spouses as well. We are the ones to stand up in the community to advocate for ourselves, for our children, for our communities.
Anne Sparaco:
I think what the research found was military spouses really often live in that shadow of veterans and military members, because it's very clear, like you said, for people to understand what exactly they do, but they're not shining a light on that shadow. You talked about your superpowers and how other military spouses have superpowers. The problem here that the research found in the military spouse report is that those superpowers are hidden by that shadow. Why is it important for employers to shine a light to get rid of that shadow, and how can they essentially engage those superpowers?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Absolutely. So, obviously, before you can shine a light on the shadow, you have to be given the opportunity to identify, right? So, that's one of the big points is to find who are the military spouses in your organization, or how are you attracting military spouses? I would say simply asking the question, whether it's, May, military spouse appreciation month, giving an opportunity for the employees in your company to self-identify, or asking as you're in the interview. When you see a military spouse resume, you're going to be able to tell from the locations and the moves or maybe some employment gaps, like you're asking about their service and the service of their military member.
Then once you have a military spouse in your organization, again, letting them be feel appreciated, giving them an opportunity to network with other military spouses or military connected individuals is a great way to retain those military spouses, just making them feel part of your organization. So, definitely just giving opportunities to ask and identify.
Anne Sparaco:
In the research report for the SHRM Foundation, our president of the SHRM Foundation, Wendi Safstrom, talked about how the research identified that gap. We talked about how to look outward, how to reach out, how to make sure we bridge that gap. Do you have any suggestion through your perspective of Hiring our Heroes on how employers can really look inward, and change that perspective within them to then really push forward that mission to retain that talent?
Allison Chamberlayne:
Yeah, I think all the Hiring our Heroes programs are designed as a bridge between the military and civilian divide. So, we have fellowship opportunities that would allow a company to host a military spouse. We have all kinds of fellowship programs for all different stages of a military connected talent person's life and transition. So for example, the Military Spouse Fellowship program allows a company to host a military spouse for 12 weeks in their organization doing the job that you think they might be qualified for. So, by taking advantage of that program, you can take a look at that resume, and maybe not understand.
It's probably non-linear. It probably has gaps, but you can say, "This person, I think, might be qualified for this job." Post them as a fellow for the 12 weeks. They can really show their stuff during that time. Then at the end, the goal is to hire the person at the end of the fellowship for that role. So, we offer a lot of different programs that provide that type of bridge. We also have other pathways to employment for military spouses, veterans and transitioning service members, like your career forward program that allows people to get a professional Google career certificate and things like project management, marketing.
So, we have a lot of programs that just give an opportunity for the job seeker to prove their stuff to the hiring manager, whether it be through certificates or fellowship programs. We offer professional development for the job seekers, whether it be military spouses or those transitioning service members. So, really, we see ourselves as that bridge between military connected talent and employers.
Anne Sparaco:
That's why your organization is so important. When we were discussing earlier about your experience as a military spouse, and you joined Hiring our Heroes, you said, "Wow, I didn't realize I could have done this the entire time. I could have done that the entire time. I had this opportunity." A lot of people don't realize they have this opportunity, or like you said, they're so busy planning for the next steps. They may not even think about it. What is some of your advice to those military spouses out there who may not realize these resources are so easily available to them?
Allison Chamberlayne:
My own personal journey, I think everyone has their own opinions on work and what they want to accomplish in their careers. So, when I married my service member, we were stationed in Baumholder, Germany. That was my first duty assignment. There's no way I'm getting a job overseas. I'm basically a recent college grad as well, and so it was really hard to launch a career over there. Our next move was to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, not an urban Mecca there either. So, it was very difficult to find a job. So, my mindset was like, "Okay, I am going to be more of a stay-at-home mom." I didn't even have a family at that point, children at that point.
So, I just resigned myself that a career was not going to be an option for me, because we're in these very remote places. My degree was in urban planning, so that wasn't really relevant either. So, I started volunteering, and I started getting involved in my community, and not even really thinking about it at the time, I was building my skill sets. So, when I joined Hiring our Heroes, and I looked back at my career and realized how similar it was to so many other people, I started getting a little angry. I missed out on all of those years of contributing to a 401(k), like furthering... Just having a career where my peers were, where my civilian peers were compared to where I was at the age of 40, say.
I mean, they're leaders of departments and business lanes, and I'm now starting over as a part-time coordinator. It can get very frustrating to realize everything that you did sacrifice. Americans are very generous to the military population, and saying things like, "Thank you for your service," and we get free tickets to here, or something like that, or an apple pie on Thanksgiving. I was like, "But, what I really needed was that economic security for my family," and so that's where the passion comes for this work is having lived it myself.
Anne Sparaco:
Yes. I love that example that you gave. You said apple pie on Thanksgiving. That's wonderful but... That really taps into what employers need to realize, what they need to strategize, and that's something the military spouse report really tries to touch on as well. When it comes to what employers can do, you talked about portability, flexibility, understanding, but you also talked a little bit about your feelings and mental health and the stress that comes with being a military spouse. Can you talk about the mental health aspect, because the SHRM Foundation is really big on mental health in the workplace?
Can you talk about how employers should take into consideration also mental health benefits for those military spouses and the unique challenges they face on that front?
Allison Chamberlayne:
So, I think we all can relate to that sense of purpose and, "What am I going to do with my life, my career? How can I contribute," and feeling fulfilled as a person based on whatever it is that fills your cup. So, for some people, that is a career. For some people, it might be something else, but to really have the security that your family is going to be okay, that you can basically achieve the same goals as your civilian counterparts. Employers looking at that, I think sometimes they get intimidated by, "Oh, I need a military spouse dedicated program for this or that," but there's a lot of what employers are doing that are applicable to military spouses.
Like, if you have flexible PTO for whether it be moves or childcare issues or those things, those things are also important to military spouses. So, don't forget, before you think you have to design an entire dedicated program, to look at what you are currently doing that is also attractive to military spouses, and let it be known.
Anne Sparaco:
Okay, so top leaders who are employers of an organization, they need to create these strategies, as you've talked about, the different types of strategies, the different types of resources they can offer, and the flexibility.
Allison Chamberlayne:
By hiring a military spouse, you're not lowering your standards for the job or just doing a community service thing. You are, at the end, going to win here, right? So, when you... Military spouses want that long-term career. They want to stay with the organization. So, really as an employer, you have to think back on, "Okay, so how do I get that, right? How do I get that worker who's going to really work their hearts out for me?" Then again, self-plug here, I would say contact Hiring our Heroes. We have a lot of different resources for both military spouses on how to get to that meaningful employment and resources for employers who want to tap into that pipeline.
One of the programs that we have been a part of is we launched the Military Spouse Fellowship program back in 2017. I talked a little bit about it earlier, but that program was so effective and so impactful that when the Department of Defense was looking to set up a similar program, they turned to us. So, they piloted, a few years ago, the Military Spouse Career Accelerator pilot. We are so fortunate to be a part of that project. So, we have over 700 spouses who have participated in that fellowship program to really connect them with meaningful employment. At the same time, the Department of Defense has the military Spouse Employment Partnership. So really, again, bridging to the business community to help connect them back to military spouses.
Anne Sparaco:
Just like military spouses and SHRM Foundation and SHRM, we're always looking to the future. We're always wondering, "What are those next steps that we can do that we can take to stay up to date, to stay on top, to make sure we provide a better workplace for everyone, and an inclusive workplace for everyone, because that's the whole purpose, right?" What is the top value proposition offered by military spouses employers should really keep in mind for the future. If you have any other pieces of advice, we'd love to hear it.
Allison Chamberlayne:
I would say as I've looked throughout my past and the employment challenges that I've had, anytime I couldn't find a career, I was always volunteering. I was always furthering my education. It's that fierce work ethic and fierce loyalty that you're going to get with a military spouse. When given the opportunity, they really are looking to contribute and looking to for a long-term career opportunity. So, once you have a military spouse in your organization, you're going to be like, "Oh, yes, more of that, please." So, I just think, one, find them, connect with Hiring our Heroes or other different organizations that can connect you with that military talent, and you'll be sold.
Anne Sparaco:
Thank you so much, Allison, for joining us on this episode of All Things Work. We truly enjoyed, not just your personal perspective, but your insights from Hiring our Heroes. Thank you so much for your insights today.
Allison Chamberlayne:
Thank you for having me. It was fun.
Anne Sparaco:
Wonderful. If you like what you're hearing for All Things Work podcast, you can find so much more on shrm.org/allthingswork. Please, like, subscribe, comment, and share with your own network, and share your thoughts. For all things work, I'm Anne Sparaco.