The podcast episode from SHRM's "All Things Work" features a conversation with Andy Biladeau, SHRM's Chief Transformation Officer, discussing the impact of AI in the workplace. Biladeau shares insights from his extensive experience in HR transformation, emphasizing the need for HR professionals to adapt to technological changes and embrace new capabilities. He highlights the role of SHRM Labs in guiding HR leaders through the evolving tech landscape, ensuring they are equipped to handle AI's integration. The discussion also touches on the importance of agility, continuous learning, and the human element in navigating workplace transformations.
The podcast episode from SHRM's "All Things Work" features a conversation with Andy Biladeau, SHRM's Chief Transformation Officer, discussing the impact of AI in the workplace. Bilodeau shares insights from his extensive experience in HR transformation, emphasizing the need for HR professionals to adapt to technological changes and embrace new capabilities. He highlights the role of SHRM Labs in guiding HR leaders through the evolving tech landscape, ensuring they are equipped to handle AI's integration. The discussion also touches on the importance of agility, continuous learning, and the human element in navigating workplace transformations.
Rate/review All Things Work on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Anne Sparaco:
So ChatGPT, Generative AI, humanoids, we have a lot of technology. Those are all the words you're hearing swirling around, not just the world of work, but just our everyday lives. This is something many people are trying to embrace, many people may be afraid of. They might be trigger words for them thinking it's going to replace them, or they just have no idea what to do.
We are here on All Things Work, a podcast from SHRM. I'm your host, Anne Sparaco. And to talk about all of that discussion around AI in the workplace is SHRM's Chief Transformation Officer Andy Biladeau. Andy, welcome.
Andy Biladeau:
Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.
Anne Sparaco:
We're excited to have you. Now, you have been at the forefront of transformation in a lot of different workplaces. Can you just discuss your background and a little bit about what you are doing here with SHRM?
Andy Biladeau:
I started my career in management consulting, and in that role primarily focused on helping large organizations implement new operating models for HR, large-scale technology implementations for HR. And I think coming out of that experience, learned a lot about different industries, different approaches to doing that type of work.
But ultimately, at the end of it was left with this gap around what it feels like to actually do the implementation inside of a company. And so the next step in my career was I went to Target Corporation in Minneapolis, and there I was responsible for leading learning and talent management for the store's organization.
And it was the first time I really felt like what the industry practitioner goes through on a day-to-day basis when it comes to, here's the slides that the consultant has left us and here's the roadmap and the strategy, and then you're responsible for implementing and executing that and navigating the internal decision-making and trade-off choices that you have to make as part of that transformation journey you go on.
And so spent a little bit of time at Target leading a large-scale operating model transformation, the change management component to it. And then actually went over to a startup, The Josh Bersin Company, was a founding team member there and focused primarily on providing advisory services to large organizations going through HR operating model transformations, HR technology transformations.
Got to use my experience both as a consultant and a practitioner to help give counsel and advice to large organizations, which brought me to SHRM, the largest HR professional association in the world. And I would say we are embarking on a multi-pronged transformation.
We're going through an external transformation where we really want to seek to elevate our member experience both digitally and in person, and then simultaneously going through an internal transformation where we build a more audience centric, data driven, and agile organization. And so there's some organizational capabilities we're going to focus on building internally over the next few years so that we can ultimately deliver that better member experience at the end of the transformation.
Anne Sparaco:
Lots of goals for SHRM. And for listeners tuning in, what enticed you to go from Minneapolis to the DC headquarters and essentially to all the other locations that SHRM touches on?
Andy Biladeau:
The last point you made was really the selling point for me. You think about the scale and impact that SHRM can have around the world, we've got over 550 local chapters, but then you also are able to connect with those members individually through digital platforms and local experiences. And so I think this idea that we can activate a worldwide network of HR professionals. And the other component to it is that there's a tremendous moment of need right now for HR.
The profession is being completely disrupted. The technologies that you mentioned earlier are changing the way that we think about serving our business clients as HR professionals. It's changing the capabilities that we need to build as HR professionals. And so I don't think there's ever been a larger moment of need for the HR profession, and I feel really honored and privileged to come in and help SHRM lead the transformation and lead the way for that audience.
Anne Sparaco:
And you have a lot of passion for workplace tech innovation. I think your reputation precedes you and what you've done and transformed at other companies, at other industries. And so with that passion, can you, from your perspective, tell us what are some of the unique challenges?
And as we say at SHRM, when we see a situation, we don't think of it as a problem, we think of as an opportunity. So think of opportunities when it comes to technology in the workplace, especially as people are questioning it, they're not really sure how to approach it really.
Andy Biladeau:
Yeah, I think it's a great question. I think as you talk about technology and the way that it's disrupting not only business but the HR profession, I actually see it as a forcing mechanism for the profession to undergo a transformation to say, these are the new capabilities that are going to be required of me as a professional and us as a function and a profession over the next few years.
And so I think that it's going to really force us to look in the mirror and say where there are spots where I need to grow, both technically and maybe my soft skills and leadership skills. As you think about what HR is going to need over the next few years, AI will actually disrupt the transactional and administrative layer of the profession. And that's going to push a lot of that work to employees so they can do things for themselves in a more self-service model.
What's going to remain is a lot of capacity for strategic work for HR. And I think as SHRM, we need to help professionals figure out, what do I do at that capacity? How do I actually show up as a strategic business consultant to the organization? What does that look and feel like? And that's where SHRM is here to support our members.
Anne Sparaco:
And so I'll be honest, when I started at SHRM, I came in, I was this reporter who had a broadcast journalism background. So we were talking AI constantly in the news. But however, I came in thinking, okay, there's ChatGPT and that's all I knew, but I came to SHRM and I learned so much more about what there actually is available just at our fingertips. And that's incredible. Can you talk about just what there is already out there?
Andy Biladeau:
Yeah, for sure. I think even before going into it, you have to rewind the clock a little bit because so many people are thrilled about this idea of AI and this idea of automation. Back in the early 2000s, we watched manufacturing supply chain get completely disrupted through automation. And so I don't want to disregard the amount of transformation that's already happened in a lot of industries and a lot of jobs.
I think why this is a different type of conversation is because it's starting to impact and affect knowledge workers who maybe didn't think that the tsunami of AI was going to hit the shore of their workplace this soon, in November of 2022, when ChatGPT got released for general availability, that anybody could go on and effectively enter a prompt and test and learn their way through it. We'd never seen technology be released at that scale and that progressive before.
And I think what realization we had is that there's no playbook for this. There's no training plan for this. There's no communications or change management plan for this. We are truly going to have to figure out how do we use this technology for my role specifically, and nobody's going to prescribe that for us. It's just a complete paradigm shift in terms of how we've historically thought about technology disrupting the workplace.
And so as you've explored on your own journey, getting exposure to these different types of tools, I think everybody is at a different place on that journey. I'd also say that there is a sense of a lot of people haven't necessarily experimented with AI truly in their workplace. Maybe they've done it in their personal life, but the SHRM research would tell you that only about 26% of HR departments have actually implemented AI for HR tactics and activities.
That's only one in four. And so I think there's also what you're feeling is this sense of clear and present stress that my job is going to change, my role is going to change. Simultaneously, this existential stress of I don't know when it's coming and I don't know what to do to prepare. And I think we're all living in the mucky middle of that.
Anne Sparaco:
You're living in the unknown, and that can cause a lot of fear within people. And it's understandable as humans. We talk about artificial intelligence. We've talked about generative AI and machine learning. From your perspective, how do you see these technologies playing a role in the workplace essentially right now as more HR professionals are trying to implement strategies and how it's going to look moving forward in the future?
Andy Biladeau:
I think it goes back to that fear point of it's not necessarily certain in the sense of I can tell you maybe how your job is going to change, not you specifically, Anne, I don't necessarily know, but for individuals and employees of organizations, I can tell you where I think the puck is moving in terms of how your role is going to change in the next four to six months. Beyond that, from a workforce planning perspective, it is incredibly difficult to forecast.
And so I think like we were talking about before, that tension between this clear and present fear and maybe more of this existential fear, I don't think it's necessarily a direct sense of being threatened by the technology, but a sense of lack of clarity about how it is actually going to tactically affect my job and my role and my work. I think that those questions for a lot of people are still unanswered, and maybe that's why you're sensing a lot of uneasiness out there.
But again, I see that as an opportunity for HR to step in and say, look, we don't necessarily have a direct roadmap for you, but we can build a sense of certainty and trust with you that we are going to adapt as we go as an organization and always provide you with career development opportunities as they become available. And so I think you're seeing companies invest in building some of those foundational attributes versus maybe handing over a quick reference card or a training class on specifically what this is going to do for you individually.
Anne Sparaco:
Right. Like we always say, it's never a one-size-fits-all situation. Every workplace is different. Every workplace will handle AI differently, right?
Andy Biladeau:
Yeah. And I think that that's where it becomes really difficult to talk about this topic sometimes. I've talked to a lot of leaders this week actually about it's interesting that the first step that many of them are taking, and I think is a really wise one, is aligning their organization on a common vocabulary.
All those words that you rattled off at the top of the conversation, those are the words that people are using within organizations, but they're using perhaps inconsistently with each other. So we're communicating past each other. And so I think a big first step that HR can take and organization can take is here is the lexicon that we're going to use when we talk about this technology.
Anne Sparaco:
And when you jumped into chief transformation officer position at SHRM, you also jumped into SHRM Labs.
Andy Biladeau:
I did.
Anne Sparaco:
And let's just admit, SHRM does a lot, right? So when you're starting to learn about SHRM, you're wondering, okay, what exactly does SHRM do? And then you hear about all these different things, and then you're hearing about SHRM Labs and you're thinking, what is SHRM Labs? So I would love for you to tell me exactly what is SHRM Labs, how are you involved, and how is SHRM Labs leveraging technology to help leaders create better workplaces?
Andy Biladeau:
There's no doubt that technology's disrupting HR and has been for a very long time. From a SHRM Labs perspective, we actually believe that the HR technology market is usually a half step or a full step ahead of the profession and the practice. And the reason is that those companies are anticipating what the problems of tomorrow or the opportunities of tomorrow are going to be for HR professionals.
And in a lot of cases, you're very surprised by what they see as the future cast of this is what HR is going to face in the future. And sometimes they're right and sometimes they're not. But I think as SHRM, we need to have that data gathering mechanism to say, here's what the technology market is telling us about where the profession is going. There's some noise in there, but there's also some signal in there.
And when we do find those signals, it allows us to then translate back to our members and practitioners, here's where the market's moving, here's maybe some more advanced or elevated practices that are coming your way. And then it also allows us to show them technologies and solutions that might be helpful as they're thinking about solving the business problems in their organization.
So in a lot of ways, SHRM Labs operates as our pulsing mechanism for what's going on in the HR tech market. But then secondarily, it's also a data feed into our research and content team to be able to build content to educate our members and professionals on this is how the market is evolving and this is what it means for you, because it's a really confusing space.
You have a lot of vendors that are more than happy to show you a demo or have a sales pitch conversation with you. But as an HR practitioner, how do you make order out of that chaos? How do you make decisions about what my business problem is? What technology might be helpful to solve that business problem? And when you start on that journey, it can be overwhelming.
And so that's where SHRM Labs is investing a lot of resources into clarifying the HR technology market so those HR leaders can make better personalized decisions.
Anne Sparaco:
So speaking of all the resources that SHRM Labs and SHRM offers, what tech tools and resources would you recommend HR and workplaces have in their arsenal before embarking upon the path of transformative change in their organization?
Andy Biladeau:
I think at the end of it, HR is a support function in many ways to enable business outcomes. And so I think the starting place is for HR with the seat at the table to actually have the adult conversations with business leaders and excos about business strategies, how do we actually break those business strategies down into required capabilities and skills? And then what is HR's role in recruiting for those skills, developing those skills, reorganizing the organization around those skills?
And I think that what you're going to find over the next three to five years is that having an internal prioritization process for HR to say, these are the things that we are trying to solve discreetly, is going to save HR from moving in too many directions at once. And so as far as tools and resources go, I would say that having those built-in touch points with the business to make sure that you're truly aligned and integrated with the business strategy and the direction of the business, that's never been more essential.
We do not operate in a silo or a vacuum. And if we don't demonstrate our value to the business, they're going to do it for themselves. And I think that ultimately that's going to be the challenge put forward to HR over the next few years.
Anne Sparaco:
There's a lot of talk about training on AI tools and other types of, I would say, just tools in general when it comes to HR and workplace leaders. What steps do you recommend they take even at the beginning steps to ensure that the people are trained correctly, they're staying up to date, and they are ready to use them once they're implemented?
Andy Biladeau:
Well, in that case, I think as it relates to learning specifically, skills have a shelf life now of about a year and a half to two years. So the idea that a learning and development function is going to be able to define the learning objectives of a program, build the storyboard, build the content, deliver that content. By the time you go through that end-to-end process, you're probably three, four or five months into the project and the skills have already started to erode.
And so I think there's going to be a real push on learning and development functions to be able to rapidly generate content to upskill employees to move in different directions throughout the organization. And it's going to require L&D functions to think completely differently about their end-to-end process.
Anne Sparaco:
And you talked about the importance, like you said, the shelf life of skills, the essential part of upskilling and re-skilling. That's not just AI, but it's everything workplace, but particularly AI. What have you seen over the years that you think is so important to keep up with as we move forward?
Andy Biladeau:
I think building foundational agility, both at the individual level and the organizational level. And when I say agility, I think that there are some guiding principles that have proven to be very effective. I think organizations that do a good job of recognizing teams or individuals that rapidly prototype ideas.
They start with a really small use case or a minimum viable product, and they fail fast and they actually get recognized for failing fast because everybody learns something and they apply it into the next use case. That's what real agility looks like. It takes a leader who says, "We made this decision, we made this investment, and it didn't work out the way that we thought, and that's okay. We're going to move in a different direction."
That's not necessarily the traditional model of leadership. I think going forward, agility is really going to be defined by how quickly can you say no to something that doesn't work and how quickly can your team rebound to refocus and reprioritize on something else.
Anne Sparaco:
So throughout your career, you've had a lot of experience transforming workplaces. What has been the most consistent thing that you've been learning throughout your career, leading into your position at SHRM that you're trying to really embrace here?
Andy Biladeau:
I think on a human level, I think what I've picked up over the years is that you have to have a strong stomach and progress doesn't always look like progress, meaning that there's a lot of days you're going to go home from work and it's going to feel like you haven't moved the ball forward necessarily. That's what it's supposed to feel like. Change is not a linear process.
And I think people who expect it to be a smooth ride are in for a shock when it starts to get on the rumble strips a little bit, or you don't get the answer to a question that you wanted, or decision didn't break your way. But I think you need to have a long-term view and recognize that you probably overestimate what you can do in a year, but you also probably underestimate what you can do in three years.
And so I think it's having a long view of really where you want to take things and how you're going to bring everybody along with you, and recognize that when you get into those friction moments, that that's part of the process. And so I think it's having the ability to truly embrace and enjoy living in discomfort at times. And I think that that's something that took me a while to learn because I did want everything to fit neatly into its box. And the reality is that change is messy, and that's okay.
Anne Sparaco:
I was just about to say, life is messy. Change is messy. Trying new things, it's never perfect right off the bat. And if it is, is it right?
Andy Biladeau:
Yeah.
Anne Sparaco:
That's the question. And it seems like throughout your career, you really maintained that human intelligence. We always talk about artificial intelligence plus human intelligence equals ROI. We know Johnny talks about that a lot. But when it comes to the human intelligence part, you talked about having a tough stomach when it comes to handling the failures. Do you think it's important for people to keep that human intelligence, that emotional intelligence in with handling AI?
Andy Biladeau:
Oh, 100%. What's fascinating is if you think about what's on the strategic agenda for most excos, if you're leading a really large organization and you're looking at your long range strategy, what's important to you is I need to build a new organization or a new capability, and I require new skills to do that. I can only squeeze efficiencies out of my organization for so long, and I have to find new paths and avenues to growth.
And usually that leads them down the path of I need to switch industries, or I need to augment my products or services. And then the knockdown effect on that is that I need new skills and capabilities inside my organization to be able to deliver on that strategy. So on one side of the equation or the ledger, you've got leadership teams who are trying to drive transformational strategies that require new capabilities.
On the other side of the ledger, you have workforces that are hungry and desperate for career growth and development. You can look at any company's employee engagement survey and I guarantee you the number one or two thing that they will ask for from the organization is career growth and development.
And so if you step back and you look at what side A wants, which is I need new skills and capabilities, and what side B wants, which is an employee population that wants career growth and development, we all want the same things. And so I think that's where HR's opportunity is in the middle. How are we the connector between what the organization needs and what individuals want?
And I can tell you from having done these transformations in the past, when you deliver on those career growth and development opportunities for employees, the engagement numbers skyrocket because people want to do meaningful work. They want to provide human intelligence. That's what we're built to do. That's what we're wired to do. And so I think as we move forward, it's going to be about HR creating opportunities for people to showcase HI, not just use it as a companion to AI.
Anne Sparaco:
What is some last minute advice that you have for the people trying to explore this, just even from your personal perspective? You talked a lot about the strategies they can take, but just from that leadership perspective when it comes to making sure that teams below your leadership level are engaging with you with AI?
Andy Biladeau:
Change starts small. If you try to think about moving from point A to point B, whether that's organizationally from point A to point B or individually from point A to point B, it can be incredibly overwhelming. And change happens over a series of small steps and sometimes excruciatingly small steps. And so I think two things that I would say. One is appreciate that it's not going to happen quickly. You're not going to grow these skills quickly.
Piece two is as you go through that journey, also don't forget to remind yourself the ground that you've captured along the way. Because I think the other part of human nature that goes along with this is we forget how much we've changed from where we were before. And so constantly reminding yourself of the progress that you're making through these micro changes is just as important as the changes themselves.
Anne Sparaco:
So overall, we're learning baby steps, embrace your fear, and fail fast so you can learn. Thank you so much, Andy, for your time. We really, really appreciate your insight, especially we are so excited to see how you transform more of SHRM.
Andy Biladeau:
We transform us.
Anne Sparaco:
How we all transform SHRM. We're all in it together, Andy. That's the whole point of it.
Andy Biladeau:
We really are.
Anne Sparaco:
All right. If you're all still interested in learning more about All Things Work, just learn more of our content, that's on SHRM.org/AllThingsWork. You can like, subscribe, and share with your own network, and please comment on social media in any of our posts. We want you to be part of the conversation. For All Things Work, I'm Anne Sparaco.