In this episode of All Things Work, host Anne Sparaco discusses innovative leave programs with Maria Trapenasso, Senior Vice President at NFP. They explore various types of leave beyond the traditional ones, such as menopause leave, grandparental leave, and expanded bereavement leave, highlighting their importance for employee well-being and retention. Maria emphasizes the need for inclusive and equitable leave policies that consider diverse employee needs and comply with legal regulations. The conversation also touches on the growing trend of sabbatical leaves and the importance of mental health support for employees and their families.
In this episode of All Things Work, host Anne Sparaco discusses innovative leave programs with Maria Trapenasso, Senior Vice President at NFP. They explore various types of leave beyond the traditional ones, such as menopause leave, grandparental leave, and expanded bereavement leave, highlighting their importance for employee well-being and retention. Maria emphasizes the need for inclusive and equitable leave policies that consider diverse employee needs and comply with legal regulations. The conversation also touches on the growing trend of sabbatical leaves and the importance of mental health support for employees and their families.
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Anne Sparaco:
Welcome to All Things Work. I'm your host, Anne Sparaco. You've probably heard a lot about different types of leave in the workplace, probably mostly that long-term leave, short-term leave, maybe something like maternity leave. But what about those different kinds to fit different types of people in the workplace? That's what you call innovative leave. And that is what we are discussing this week, the different ones to help different employees because, as we say at SHRM, nothing is a one-size-fits-all, but it's important to have an inclusive workplace. And joining us to talk about innovative leave programs is Maria Trapenasso, who is senior vice president and national practice leader of Human Capital Solutions for NFP. Maria, welcome.
Maria Trapenasso:
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Anne Sparaco:
Yes, we're happy to have you. So to start things off, do you mind telling us a little bit more about what NFP does just for those listeners who are still learning? You are based in the New York City area.
Maria Trapenasso:
We are now NFP and Aon Company. It is a national broker and we service our clients in all areas of benefits. So corporate benefits, property and casualty, life insurance. And Human Capital Solutions is a consulting division of NFP that helps our clients with all things related to HR.
Anne Sparaco:
And tell us a little bit about your experience leading up into NFP, how you got into the HR consulting world.
Maria Trapenasso:
Yeah. I've been in HR for the past 30 years, and I love a challenge. I love going into organizations and really taking a look at what's not working, what's not efficient, creating solutions that do work. So it was a really natural progression for me to go into consulting because I can take all of the experience that I've had over the past years and help organizations to really streamline their HR processes and become more effective.
Anne Sparaco:
And as we mentioned in this episode, we're talking about the different types of paid leave programs, especially those innovative ones. Can we just start off by talking about why paid leave programs are so important, not just to the employee, but also to the employer?
Maria Trapenasso:
Yeah. I think, well, first and foremost, it's definitely an attraction and retention tool. It is such a competitive market. If employers are not offering benefits that really speak to employees and offerings that really speak to employees, they're going to go somewhere else. So it's really important for employers to take a look at what employees are asking for today and to help meet those demands.
Anne Sparaco:
And as we mentioned, we've talked about parental leave. People know about that. They know about disability leave, short-term, long-term. Those are very familiar to a lot of listeners out there and a lot of people in the workplace. But for those innovative ones, can you give a little some examples to give people an idea of what exactly an innovative leave program looks like?
Maria Trapenasso:
Yeah. So we reported on this in our 2024 leave benchmarking report with NFP, but things that we've really seen is very innovative. And I think it's really speaking to the individual constituencies within an organization. For example, you have menopause leave. No one five years ago would have even dreamed that we'd be speaking about this because it was so taboo, really, to talk about. But so many employees suffer in silence.
And when you think about the cohort, when you think about all of the women that really play an integral role within the organization and really drive success within an organization, how can you just ignore the fact that they are going through so many issues at work and not saying anything about it? We need to come up with ways to accommodate them. And although the leave portion, it's really more flexible time and certain accommodations that the employer can make them more comfortable while they're at work that's really prevalent. But menopause leave has been something that a lot of employers have spoken about and have initiated over the past two years, which has been exceptional.
Also, grandparental leave is something that most employers don't really think about. But when you think about the fact that there is a whole group of employees that are beyond childbearing years, we obviously hear a lot about, as you mentioned, parental leave, maternity leave. You are missing an entire generation of employees that are past childbearing years. And this is really important to employees because what the benefit does is that it allows them to spend crucial time with their child that has just welcomed a newborn into the family. So that can be taking care of the children that are already there, their grandchildren that are already there, or helping their children with a new child. So it's really important for them to be present in their families during that time, so that is definitely something else we're seeing.
I'm also seeing bereavement leave being expanded and the reasons for bereavement leave. So one of the things that we've seen is employers be more compassionate. They're allowing employees to take time off under bereavement leave if they've had a miscarriage or a failed IVF. I think it's important to note it's not just for the birth parent, it's not just for the maternal parent. It's for every parent because all parents are severely affected by that type of loss. So it's definitely something that's more humane and compassionate. And they've also expanded the people that can be covered under bereavement leave policies, even if it's not for IVF or miscarriage because of the blended family. So I think that speaks volumes to employers really realizing what the family looks like today.
Anne Sparaco:
Absolutely. And so I'd love to circle back to each one you pointed out, especially the menopause-related benefits. That's actually a growing dialogue we found in the SHRM 2024 benefits survey that we just released recently. And that is a growing dialogue. I think that is very important and especially more inclusive of women and other people experiencing menopause-related impacts. And regarding the grandparents who may be becoming more responsible for these children, in other communities they call them grandfamilies. It's often when the grandparents may have to take custody of the grandchild because of different reasons, and then they are left with this large responsibility. And they also deserve that type of benefit, that type of leave.
And circling back to your third point on the bereavement, changing the length of the bereavement and what it applies to, I've seen different types of bereavement policies where if it's a distant family member it's a couple of days, maybe a few days, but if it's a very close family member you lost, you have a lot longer time. Do you see that shift changing with the number of days that people have based on the type of family member? Because a grandmother to someone may be more like a mother versus another family who experiences something very different.
Maria Trapenasso:
I'm actually seeing a shift of more equitable policies across the board. I don't think it's appropriate for an employer to put a value on the loss of someone. You never know what that relationship was, to your point. So I think it's really important for employers to take a look at being and creating more equitable policies across the board. Of course, when an employee experiences a miscarriage, that's something that can lead into short-term disability as well.
Anne Sparaco:
And we are seeing that shift, as you've mentioned. You're seeing a lot more of these types of different policies come into place, more equitable policies. What is really compelling employers to think out of the box with these policies and try to think from the perspective of the individual employee?
Maria Trapenasso:
I would say maybe even 10 years ago there was almost a very clear delineation between work and home life. And as we've seen, that has completely blurred. And of course, in the past four years employers have, I believe, been awakened to the fact that it is so crucial to realize that every single employee has a home life. And if we are naive enough to think that their home life is not affecting their work life, we're under a rock, right? So it's-
Anne Sparaco:
Right.
Maria Trapenasso:
... so important. And I think that finally employers are coming to the realization that if we support the employee in their home life, in their complete life, then they're going to be a much more productive and efficient employee.
Anne Sparaco:
And you kind of started to jump into my next question about how this really at the end of the day benefits not just the employee, but the employer as well. It circles back to a lot of different aspects of a company or organization. Can you talk about the other benefits? And can you also talk into maybe what challenges or guidelines employers should be aware of, especially when it comes to the local, state, or federal laws?
Maria Trapenasso:
Sure, absolutely. So of course, productivity is going to be the number one reason for employers to take a look at these programs. And a lot of employers might say, "How is giving an employee time off going to help their productivity?" Well, if you give them time off to take care of their personal needs, they will be present at work when they need to be. So it sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not. It's actually extremely beneficial for the employer. And of course, attraction and retention, as we mentioned before, employees specifically will, and we've seen all of the reports that say an employee will actually take less salary if there are more benefits that are going to be applicable to them. So that's very, very important.
When you talk about regulations, I love employment law. I know that sounds crazy. But you can't ignore the fact that all of the states have really started to initiate regulations around different types of leaves. So for example, the bereavement leave is certainly a nice to have, and it's definitely more compassionate for employers to do that. But there are states that have enacted expanded bereavement leave regulations. California is one of them. So for example, you have to provide the employee at least five days, even if it's unpaid, in the state of California. Other states have expanded the definitions of leaves and they've incorporated the leaves to work with FMO in their state. So it's really important that employers look at that as well.
Anne Sparaco:
I think it's really important to understand the law because if you're implementing maybe a different type of paid leave program, you have to make sure it's within the confines of the law, right?
Maria Trapenasso:
Absolutely. And so we actually work with a lot of clients that come to us to help us to really navigate creating comprehensive leave policies. And the reason for that is if you're a multi-state employer, you don't have to just tackle one policy, one state leave regulation. You really have to encompass all of the state leave regulations and create one comprehensive policy. So understanding how all of those regulations work and trying to create one core policy is really crucial. And this goes all the way from sick and safe leave all the way through all different types of parental leave policies, caregiving policies, maternity policies. So it's really, really important for employers to make sure that they're doing the research, that they understand what the regulations are in each state that they're in, and ensuring equity across the board for all of those employees.
Anne Sparaco:
Right. And on episodes of All Things Work, we talk with a couple of global corporations, they reach very different parts of the world. Can you talk, even if not into specifically, just about the challenges it may pose when it comes to addressing these types of leave policies on a global level? Because every country is very different on how they handle certain policies.
Maria Trapenasso:
Absolutely. And so I think that when you're in the United States, of course you have to look at all of the states that you're in. But globally, you may need to understand the culture. You're going to need to understand those requirements. So for example, an employer in the United States that has employees in Canada is most probably not going to give them a year off. They're not going to provide them with that much time. It's almost employers in the US will look at that as an extreme challenge operationally. And they do it in other countries, so if you're a global organization, you may need to look specifically at each country to ensure that you are of course complying with the regulations and providing what is required.
Anne Sparaco:
It's just very different and it depends on where you are and who your employees are as well, right?
Maria Trapenasso:
Absolutely, absolutely. But I do believe that if you're in the US there are ways to create a comprehensive policy that incorporates all of the regulations. If you have a few outliers, you can do that, you can carve them out. But for the most part, when you're looking at a parental leave policy or a maternity leave policy, even the caregiver leave policies, you can ensure that they are compliant with federal and state and local regulations and still have a policy that you can administer.
Anne Sparaco:
And we understand that when there are different factors that go into what employers should do when it comes to implementing an innovative leave program, what are some of the factors that may sway them towards more grandparent leave, remit leave, or like you said, menopause-related leave?
Maria Trapenasso:
I think it's really important for an employer to take a look at their population. As you mentioned before, it's not one-size-fits-all. So if an employer is looking to maybe provide more parental leave over implementing a grandparental leave, they need to really look at how is their workforce made up? Is it more important to provide time off for employees that are going through that grandparental season? If you don't have any employees within that age range within your organization, well, no, it doesn't make sense, right? But if it does, it's important to at least consider it because you need to balance the benefits across your workforce to make sure that you include all of your cohorts.
Anne Sparaco:
Yes, making that an inclusive feedback, making people feel like their voices were heard at the end of the day as well.
Maria Trapenasso:
Absolutely, absolutely. That's so important.
Anne Sparaco:
And so you talked about grandparent leave, you talked about menopause-related leave. We have a younger generation really starting to take over the workplace right now. They're coming in with certain expectations. And a lot of that is assistance when it comes to their personal mental health. And we talked about bereavement leave. I think that coincides with the mental health aspect to take care of yourself, to take care of your family on that end. Can you talk about the latest trends maybe you've been seeing when it comes to the mental health-related aspect?
Maria Trapenasso:
I see a lot more employers offering and providing coaching. This could be on a medical spectrum, so it could be through the medical benefits. They could have a nurse that's available that the employee can talk to 24/7 if there's any issues going on. But also, a lot of employers are offering individualized coaching, and the ones that are really innovative are actually offering it for their family as well. And I think that that's really important because when you think about getting help and when you think about issues that concern an individual, it's not compartmentalized. It affects the entire family. So if an employer is perhaps going through some really difficult times with a teenager or an employee's family member that's going through maybe some medical issues, well, that is really something that affects the entire family. So if you only help the employee but not the family member, there's still a disconnect, right? So the real innovative coaching and access to mental health is really broadening to the entire family and not just the employee.
Anne Sparaco:
Yes, happy family, happy employee, happy employer. It just kind of creates this domino effect. And do you have any advice on what employers should do when it comes to getting that feedback? Because we understand that the individual employee may talk specifically about their needs. But in that feedback, maybe a survey, should employers include questions about the family connections, even if it's... It's a tight balance. How do you ask about somebody's personal life and their personal family relations without digging too much into their background and making them feel a little exposed to their employer, but also try to understand their needs and what they need at home?
Maria Trapenasso:
Yeah. I think that's really simple. I think it's a matter of asking the question pretty bluntly and just saying, "Do you have family members that could benefit from coaching?" Or, "If we offered coaching to family members, do you think that they would participate?" Or, "Are you going through any stressful periods in your life that affects your entire family?" So it's direct, but it's not intrusive.
Anne Sparaco:
Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And it's just a question I had off the top of my head because it was just something I was curious about and I think other people would be curious about too because we're always trying to walk that fine line of professional and understanding and inclusion. And so here at SHRM we also like to think of what's next for the future? What's coming to us tomorrow and beyond? And looking at that, looking at these innovative leave programs, what do you see coming for the future of the workplace? And how should employers try to keep up in order to, like you said, retain and recruit better and create a healthier workplace culture?
Maria Trapenasso:
Well, when it comes to leaves, believe it or not, we're seeing the resurgence of sabbatical leaves. We have seen so many instances where an employer creates a sabbatical. And so for those who aren't familiar with that, it has been very prevalent in academia. They have usually allowed teachers and professors to take off a certain period of time to either do research, really understand more of their trade, just take time off to refresh and recharge. And we have seen a lot of in corporate employers incorporate that as well. And the reason is, when an employee comes back from a sabbatical, and typically it's usually, I mean, it can range from 30 days to a year. We typically see 30 days from most corporate employers. And they can do that on a range of tenure.
So you're not going to give every single employee 30 days off. That's not practical, right? But what you can do is for those who are very long tenured, you can create a program where they would receive 30 days off with pay. Some do it without pay, but most sabbaticals are with pay. And the employee can go and recharge, completely unplug from texts, from emails, from work, and the results are phenomenal. The employee comes back not only recharged and refreshed, they come back with new creativity. And I think when you were talking about what else is coming down the road outside of leaves, but it definitely impacts the workforce, believe it or not, employers are really coming up with innovative ways to get employees back into the office. And although I don't foresee a completely in-office workforce, I do see a hybrid model working very, very well.
Anne Sparaco:
Are there any last-minute types of advice that you have for, not just the employers, but the employees as well when it comes to communicating these needs, getting that feedback, and preparing for the future when it comes to what is best for your individual company or organization for innovative paid leave?
Maria Trapenasso:
So for employees, I would say be present and take part when your employer creates a survey. They really are looking for your feedback. It takes a lot for an employer to create a survey and implement it. So I think it's important that the employees realize that if they're doing that, they really care and they do want your opinion, so be honest. For employers, I believe that it is important to survey your employees on a regular basis. I don't think it should be once a year. It should be whenever there are important decisions to make. If you're considering one benefit over the other, what's really important to your employees? If you're going to take the time to do a survey, you need to provide employees with feedback. Even if you're not able to implement everything that came out of the survey feedback, at least let them know what you found and what was important and come up with a three-year plan. Okay, well, we can't do this today, but we're looking to implement this down the road or in the future.
And lastly, I think that it's so important for employers to understand when they're creating these policies there are three main factors. One is always, as we discussed before, take a look at your state, local, and your federal leaves to make sure that you're compliant and put that language into your policy. So your policies run concurrently. Make sure that you are providing them with a clear roadmap as to their responsibilities when they're effectuating a leave. Do they need to file a claim with the state? Make sure that that's on there so that they understand what their responsibility is. I think also making sure that your leaves will run concurrently with any state, local, or federal regulation as well.
And then also, equity, making sure that your policies are equitable. So when, for example, if you have a parental leave, in accordance with the EEOC, if you're providing a birth parent with six weeks of paid leave, you need to provide everybody else with six weeks of paid leave as well. I see more often than not employers kind of leaning towards the birth parent rather than providing everybody else with the same leave, and it really does need to be equitable. And then lastly, I would say process. Make sure that your policies are very clear on processes. Again, what the employee's responsibility is. How are they going to pay their premiums while they're out on an unpaid leave? Don't just leave that to chance. That is certainly a place where we see a lot of employers just bleeding money because they don't have a process in place. And what that looks like when an employee needs to be put on COBRA, what it looks like when they're transitioning to LTD. How long are you leaving them on your payroll? All of these things are so important when we're considering your leave policies.
Anne Sparaco:
So important. And thank you so much, Maria, for your insights and everything you had to say about this topic, especially looking forward to the future and what's to come. We were very excited to have you on the All Things Work podcast.
Maria Trapenasso:
Thank you so much for having me. This was a pleasure. Thank you.
Anne Sparaco:
Wonderful. And if you want to learn more about the All Things Work podcast, just go to shrm.org/allthingswork. Please like, subscribe, share, and even comment on our social media posts. We want you to part of the conversation for All Things Work, I'm Anne Sparaco.