<p>Millennials are often described as entitled and obsessed with praise, validation and brunch. These stereotypes fail to recognize the tremendous importance of Millennials in the world of work: Now the largest generation in the workplace, Millennials comprise more than 35 percent of the global workforce, and by 2025, they’ll make up 75 percent all employees. In this episode of <em>All Things Work</em>, host Tony Lee speaks with Bruce Tulgan, an expert on generational issues in the workplace, on how employers can effectively attract and retain the Millennial generation.<br /><br />Follow <a href="https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/news/hr-news/Pages/all-things-work-podcast.aspx"><em>All Things Work</em></a><em> </em>wherever you listen to podcasts; <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-things-work/id1450310325?mt=2">rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts</a>.<br /><br />This episode of <em>All Things Work</em> is sponsored by <a href="https://www.namely.com/">Namely</a>.<br /><br />Music courtesy of <a href="https://www.bensound.com/royalty-free-music/track/hip-jazz">bensound</a>.</p>
Millennials are often described as entitled and obsessed with praise, validation and brunch. These stereotypes fail to recognize the tremendous importance of Millennials in the world of work: Now the largest generation in the workplace, Millennials comprise more than 35 percent of the global workforce, and by 2025, they’ll make up 75 percent all employees. In this episode of All Things Work, host Tony Lee speaks with Bruce Tulgan, an expert on generational issues in the workplace, on how employers can effectively attract and retain the Millennial generation.
Follow All Things Work wherever you listen to podcasts; rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts.
This episode of All Things Work is sponsored by Namely.
Music courtesy of bensound.
Speaker 1:
All Things Work. All Things Work is brought to you by Namely. Whether you have 50 employees or 1000, Namely is an all in one HR solution that helps you hire, inspire, and retain your workforce. For a limited time, get your first month free at namely.com. That's namely.com.
Tony Lee:
Welcome to the All Things Work podcast from the Society For Human Resource Management. I'm your host, Tony Lee, head of content here at SHRM. Thank you for joining us. All Things Work as an audio adventure, where we talk with thought leaders and taste makers to bring you an insider's perspective on All Things Work. Different generations, often find themselves over generalized and parodied, and millennials are no exception. Historically stereotyped as entitled and obsessed with praise validation and brunch, millennials are now the largest generation in the workplace. They comprise 50% of the global workforce, which will rise to 75% by 2025. Now, for employers to attract, engage, and retain millennials, who, by the way, we define as those ages, 25 to 40, they need to provide an employment experience that resonates with that generation and their desire for work that provides them with personal fulfillment and financial rewards, while also enabling them to have a positive impact on society. My guest today, joining me to discuss millennials and what employers can do to attract and retain them is Bruce Tulgan.
Bruce is an internationally recognized expert on generational issues in the workplace, best practices of effective management, and the author of numerous bestselling books, including Not Everyone Gets A Trophy: How To Manage The Millennials. As founder and CEO of the management research and consulting firm, Rainmaker Thinking, Bruce advises, business leaders globally and is a sought after keynote speaker and management trainer. Bruce, welcome to all things work.
Bruce Tulgan:
Thank you so much for having me.
Tony Lee:
So, let's just dive right in. So, the stereotype goes that millennials are entitled, that they expect promotions every year. They question established protocols. They hunger for praise. Is that a fair assessment of that generation?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, it's a fair assessment of the stereotypes associated with the generation, but look, I'm 54. I was born in 1967. When I came into the workplace, I'm part of the much vaunted generation X. What were people saying about us? They're disloyal. They have short attention spans. They don't want to work as hard. They demand immediate gratification. They want everything their own way, and they want it right now. It wasn't a flattering stereotype then, and it's not a flattering stereotype now. And by the way, does that sound familiar? A lot of the... That's what a lot of people are saying about generation Z. So, some of this is just about being young, but a lot of it is about the special accidents of history that do make each generation a little bit different. And I think probably the most important accident of history that coincided with millennials starting to come into the workplace is the death of job security and the fundamental change in the employer-employee relationship.
So, it's funny to me because when older more experienced people say, "Oh, these young people, they have a bad attitude. Oh, they expect everything their own way. They want everything. They want it right now." Well, okay, but they just got here. And who is it who decided that, "Hey, downsizing, restructuring, reengineering, that's going to be the order of the day and the future of work"? Well, what do you expect employees to do on their side of the equation?
Tony Lee:
Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And then you think too, that millennials, I mean, we're probably more impacted than anyone by the great recession, and now the great recovery. And so they're thinking, so where's mine? I suffered, and now I'm ready to collect, right?
Bruce Tulgan:
Yeah. I mean, look, if you were born in 1981, and then you graduated from college in the ordinary course of things, you came into the workplace right after 9/11, right? And so, oh boy, things were great then right after that incredible tragedy. And then let's say you start to gain some traction in your career. And so then you're in your mid to late twenties. Then what happens next? 2007, 8, 9, the great recession, right? And then you're really starting to mature. And then boom, the pandemic. So, these are all accidents of history, but accidents of history are what tell the story of a generation's experience and a generation's experience in the workplace. And bear in mind, this is a generation that grew up learning how to think, learn, and communicate while attached to handheld super computers, especially the younger ones, the second wave millennials. And they were raised by helicopter parents on steroids. So, they show up in the workplace, they're like, "I'm here." And everyone's like, "Oh yeah, things aren't too good right now."
Tony Lee:
Right? Now, you got to give them some credit too, because I mean, this is a generation that has really pushed for a more employee centered workplace. I mean, if not for them, we wouldn't have paid leave for parents, for both parents. We probably wouldn't have the level of diversity efforts that we have had. We wouldn't have the push for corporate responsibility that we've seen. I mean, they are making a difference, right?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, look, so young people are always the canaries in the coal mine. They're always showing us where we're headed, and they show us what's changing. And one of the reasons is that they're shaped by the same forces shaping the immediate future just around the corner. And yeah, look, I think the millennials, especially the second wave millennials, and now generation Z coming behind them, are the most diverse generation in history. And yeah, I think they look at work and life... Let's go back a couple generations to the baby boomers. "Hey, I got a wrap my life around the kind of career I want to have." I think millennials were the first ones to say, "Maybe I want to wrap my career around the kind of life I want to have."
Tony Lee:
And do you think, for the most part, they're succeeding? Is that what this generation is doing or are they falling into the same habits of earlier generations and looking for the bucks?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, look, everybody grows up and settles down a little, but I don't think there are a lot of opportunities to settle down in today's world. What's driving the millennial mindset and the post-millennial mindset, look, this is affecting people of all ages. So, in that sense, we are all becoming more like them. They're not growing up and settling down and getting more like the generations that came before them. The older, more experienced people who are in their midst, we are all getting more like the millennials, because they're more plugged into the reality that we're all experiencing. Place and time, they knew place and time of work didn't matter that much long before the pandemic. Hey, where are you going to work? What do you care? When are you going to work? What do you care?
They knew that long before the pandemic. "Oh, I could do my job from home." "We don't think so. We're not so comfortable with that." "No, no. I can, really. Trust me. Watch." Yeah. So, I think that the millennials are certainly in a good position to stand for a lot of the transformation that's happening in the workplace. They're more in sync with these accidents of history and flexibility when it comes to schedule. Where and when I work, flexibility in place and time, those are probably the two biggest things. But of course, diversity also is a huge value and trait that the millennials are also ahead of the curve on that as well.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Now, the downside, it seems, and there's a lot of research out there that the millennial generation seems to have higher levels of stress than pretty much anyone else, and mental health has become a pretty significant issue for a lot of folks in the millennial generation, so much so that employers are, are taking steps to try and address it among their, their workforces. Any thoughts on why millennials seem to be leading that area?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, look, we're seeing that, especially among second wave millennials, the younger millennials and post-millennials. Yes. I mean, I think the reason is, look around, the world is so uncertain. Their reality is one of fear of environmental collapse, periodic economic collapse, pandemics. There's a lot to be stressed about. And in a highly uncertain world, you got to try to focus on yourself and your family, take care of yourself, take care of your family. And look, nobody anymore is saying, "Hey, welcome to the family. Pay your dues. Climb the ladder. Do as you're told. Wait for your boss to notice you. In the long run, the system will take care of you with long term vesting rewards like a pension." I mean, the future is very uncertain. Every day is uncertain. So, the fact that they're reflecting that I think means they're in sync with reality.
Tony Lee:
I hear you. I mean, let's talk about some other stress inducers though. I mean, this is also a generation that seems to be pretty driven by debt. They were all convinced that they had to go to college and get their four years degree because it's the only way they're going to have a meaningful career. And they all took on huge debt to do it. And some of them, even those approaching 40, are still paying student debt. So, how do you manage a team that's... All they really worry about is, how am I going to get ahead?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, look, from an employer standpoint, having employees who are in debt can be a strategic advantage, right? Because they're less likely to be like, "You know what? I'm going to go do my own thing," because at least they need to make a living. But you make a really powerful point. I mean, look, education and healthcare are two profoundly expensive costs. One, the cost of education to get into the workplace, and then healthcare, which is typically tied to employment. These are profoundly costly basics of living a healthy adult life and career. And they are big sources of stress, no question.
Tony Lee:
So, another attribute, we're kind of covering the gamut here, another attribute of millennials, according to the research, is that they tend to be fairly entrepreneurial and willing to take on multiple gigs. It's not like I've got my one job, that's what I'm going to focus on. And then I'll go pursue hobbies or something. It seems that they're starting businesses. They're taking on multiple jobs. Why do you think millennials seem to be focused on that?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, I think there's a two part reason. One is a basic risk management strategy, that they want to have their eggs in more than one basket. Right? So, it's just diversification of risk. And then the second reason is, in some cases, they have to. They have to for the extra income. But I do think there's something else going on here besides self-protection and trying to make a little extra money to pay the bills. And that is, because they learned how to think, learn, and communicate in a tidal wave of information, there is access all the time to information about things that are new, about different ways to do things. There's access to so much information that I think it's spurs innovation. But the other thing is that the barriers to entry in business, certainly a lot of business, the barriers to entry are much lower. It's much less expensive to get into a lot of different areas of work because you don't need to build a factory.
Tony Lee:
So, I'm an employer and millennials make up half my workforce, leading towards 75% in a few years. I want to develop these people, but that's a pretty big risk for me as an employer, right? Because if I'm offering training and career development, there's no reason why they won't happily take all my training and then jump ship and go somewhere. I mean, I know that's always a case, but it seems like with millennials, it's more likely than ever.
Bruce Tulgan:
Yeah. We call that the development investment paradox. You have to develop people. The more you develop them, the more valuable they are. The more valuable they are, the more they have the opportunity to go sell your development investment to the highest bidder. It's very frustrating. It's very frustrating. But look, what I tell business leaders is, it wasn't their idea to get rid of long term employment. And a lot of people would take long term employment if they felt like they could believe in it and they could count on it. It's just what they're not going to do is make one short term sacrifice after another. Oh, I'll work smarter, faster, better, bend over backwards, jump through hoops, make all kinds of sacrifices in exchange for vague long term promises that may or may not best in the deep distant future. The relationship now is not long term hierarchical. It's short term and transactional. So, if you want to protect your development investment, you have to protect it day by day, right?
You have to figure out what is it that is going to keep this person longer? What is it that's going to keep this person contributing more discretionary effort? So, everybody comes to work, they do what they need to do. How do you get that person to contribute more discretionary effort and keep the best people longer? And it's funny, employers tell me all the time, "Oh wow, you can't retain people anymore." And then in the next breath, they tell me, "These people have totally outrageous, ureasonable demands." Right? "This one doesn't want to work on Thursdays. This one wants to work from home. This one wants to bring his dog to work." Well, those unreasonable demands, don't you get it? They are telling you what it takes to retain them. If somebody tells you, "I don't want to work on Thursdays," instead of saying, "It's an outrage," instead, you should be saying, "Oh, you just told me how to retain you for another week, another month, another year, and continue to get a return on investment on my development investment."
Tony Lee:
It makes perfect sense for employers that have that flexibility. Now, of course, the other thing millennials say, in fact, according to SHRM research, 65% of millennials say they're underpaid. That's not quite as easy to address, right?
Bruce Tulgan:
I mean, everybody, certainly in America, thinks they're underpaid. So, I don't know who those other 40% are, right? I mean, almost anyone I have ever asked, "Hey, do you think you should get more money?" "Sure." "How much?" "A lot." Right? What I will tell you that when it comes to millennials, and especially second wave millennials and post-millennials, control timing and customization are the keys to making them feel more rewarded. So, even if you can't pay them more, can you give them more control over how to earn more? So, maybe I can't pay you more today, but I can tell you, "If you want to earn more, you got to do ABC." Right? So, give them clear metrics. Let them pull the lever to earn more. So, if you make them feel like they through their efforts, are in control, A, they will pull those levers, and that's good for you and it's good for them. It's win-win.
The second is timing. So, the more frequently you reward people, don't wait until the end of the year, right? But the more frequently you reward people, even in smaller calibrated rewards, that also makes them feel more rewarded. And third, customization. Get more creative so that you don't just have money to offer, but you also can reward people with more interesting assignments. You can reward people with learning opportunities. You can reward people with more control over their own schedule. You can reward people with more responsibility. You can reward people with more control over their workspace and location. There are other ways besides money to reward people, control, timing and customization. Hey, look, there are teams were you said to everybody, "Okay, there's five of you. What if we get rid of one of you and split the money among the other four?" Some teams would go for that. Some teams wouldn't, but would they be able to agree on who leaves?
Tony Lee:
Well, and the interesting thing here too, is, from an HR perspective, there's a lot of training of line managers to be able to manage millennials in this way and give them the things that they find are most valuable. But as we talked about at the top of this program, continuous feedback is something that millennials seem to really value. So, in addition to giving them that flexibility, how do you make sure they get the regular feedback that they seek?
Bruce Tulgan:
I don't think it's in addition. I think it's absolutely central. If you are going to give people differential rewards, if you're going to give people more flexibility, flexibility and accountability go hand in hand. Flexibility and generous rewards are not a function of weak hands off leadership. The only way to make that possible is to highly engaged coaching style leadership. So, look, 90% of what we do is train managers on the front lines to have much more granular coaching style, structured one on one conversations with people so that you're making sure you're not just giving people guidance and direction and support, but you are helping them sort through competing priorities. "Hey, if something isn't going to get done today, let me help you make that decision." By the way, that's also a stress reliever. "Hey, if you're looking at a small problem, let me try to help you solve it."
If you're worried there's a problem around the corner, let's try to identify it together and solve it. By the way, help troubleshooting is also a stress reliever. Resource planning. Oh, I got to do this, but I don't have the resources I need. Let me help you either get your hands on the resources you need, or let's talk through how you're going to do this task, responsibility, or project without the resources you need. Same with planning work. "Hey, let me look at your plan. Let me help you make a plan." How about, "Oh, you're taking on this new task. Do you know there's a best practice? Hey, there's a great job aid for that. Hey, there's a repeatable solution for that. Hey, someone else already learned how to do this. Let me give you an example of what they did." Right? So, the more managers... It's not just feedback, right? It's guidance, directions, support. It's helping people sort through priorities, troubleshooting, resource planning. And then planning the work, and then feedback. Right?
So, managers, anyone who thinks that young people today... And by the way, the oldest millennials are 40. They're not so young. And the second wave millennials, the youngest of them are 25. Okay. But then what about the gen Zers, the ones who come after the millennials? The biggest myth about young people today is they want everything on a silver platter and they want to be left alone. No. They don't want weak leaders. They want strong leaders who help them do more, better, faster, and help them earn more of that stuff they want.
Tony Lee:
Well, boy, that's a great roadmap for our listeners to go back and put into practice. That's all the time we've got today, and that's going to do it for today's episode of All Things Work. A big thank you to Bruce Tulgan for joining me to talk about how to engage and retain the millennial workforce. And before we get out of here, I want to encourage everyone to follow All Things Work wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, listener reviews have a real impact on a podcast visibility. So, if you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review and help others find the show. And finally, you can find all of our episodes on our website at shrm.org/atwpodcast. Thanks for listening, and we will catch you next time on All Things Work.
Speaker 1:
All things work is brought to you by Namely. The great resignation is impacting so many businesses and keeping employees engaged and connected is crucial to avoid high turnover. Whether you have 50 employees or 1000, Namely is it all in one HR solution that helps you hire, inspire, and retain your workforce. Namely's intuitive platform helps you maintain a great employee experience with features like onboarding, performance, payroll, benefits, administration, and compliance. Plus, HR professionals love it too. For a limited time, get your first month free when you make the switch. Head to namely.com. That's namely.com.