With reports that more than 75 percent of employees are experiencing burnout at their jobs, workers desperately need a break. One of the best cures for burnout is time off, and a workplace where employees feel good about taking time to recharge, reset and come back refreshed. In this episode of All Things Work, host Tony Lee speaks with Andrea Herron, WebMD’s head of people, on how employers and people managers can foster a culture of work that encourages employees to take the time off they deserve.
With reports that more than 75 percent of employees are experiencing burnout at their jobs, workers desperately need a break. One of the best cures for burnout is time off, and a workplace where employees feel good about taking time to recharge, reset and come back refreshed. In this episode of All Things Work, host Tony Lee speaks with Andrea Herron, WebMD’s head of people, on how employers and people managers can foster a culture of work that encourages employees to take the time off they deserve.
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All Things Work is sponsored by PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizational financial wellness, organized for you. Learn more at pnc.com/wellness. PNC and PNC Bank are registered marks of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC.
Tony Lee:
Welcome to All Things Work, a podcast from the Society for Human Resource Management. I'm your host, Tony Lee, Head of Content here at SHRM. Thank you so much for joining us. All Things Work as an audio adventure, where we talk with thought leaders and taste makers to bring you an insider's perspective on all things work.
Now, by all accounts, the stress of the past 15 months has left the world of work in desperate need of a break. Reports indicate that more than 75% of employees are currently experiencing burnout at their jobs, which spells big trouble for employees' mental health, and increases their likelihood of quitting. As you might expect, one of the best cures for burnout is time off, but just like any medicine, you have to actually take it for it to work. Which points towards the importance of employers and people managers fostering a workplace experience that encourages employees to feel good about taking time off, to recharge and reset.
Joining me today to discuss how to make sure your employees take time off, is Andrea Herron. Andrea is WebMD's Head of People, leading and overseeing all things human resources at WebMD. She's a passionate mental health advocate and co-author of There's an Elephant in Your Office, a how-to guide to help managers identify and appropriately respond to mental health issues as they appear in the workplace. Andrea is also the host of web MD's podcast, HR Scoop, a show that covers the evolving world of employee benefits, as well as the challenges of managing different employee populations.
And Andrea will be speaking at the SHRM annual conference in September. So if you'd like to hear Andrea in person, come join us in Las Vegas at our annual conference. Andrea, welcome to All Things Work.
Andrea Herron:
Thank you. I am so excited to be here.
Tony Lee:
Well, we're excited to have you here with us. So I just referenced that more than 75% of employees are experiencing burnout. Does that surprise you?
Andrea Herron:
Unfortunately, no, it does not. I mean, the past year has been a wild roller coaster for all of us, and up was down and down was up and work is home and home is work. So how could we not be a little burnout?
Tony Lee:
Is it because the boundaries are just so blurred that people can't separate work and personal life?
Andrea Herron:
I think that's part of it. I mean, there really isn't a huge differentiation now between work and home. Most people for a significant amount of last year, they didn't leave their house. Maybe they moved from the bedroom to the kitchen table. Maybe they were lucky enough to have a separate desk. But it's infinitely more difficult to have any boundary about what's work time and home time when they're in the physical same location.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because now you're starting to see employees coming back to physical workplaces. And yet from all the research I'm seeing, burnout's not getting any less. I mean, what's going on?
Andrea Herron:
I have a couple of theories. For one, people didn't get to take their vacation time last year. And even if they did, a lot of people don't consider vacation a true vacation if they don't get to go somewhere else. So I believe there is tremendous value in a staycation, if you need to get a project checked off the list or just have a self-care day or get together with friends. But for a lot of people, it just doesn't quite feel the same reset if they're still in their house.
The other thing is just our resiliency tools and coping mechanisms have completely shifted in the past year. So burnout, taking time off is great, but also we have to be able to use and strengthen those resiliency muscles so that we can better handle the day-to-day stressors. Because if we can't, then even the smallest of inconveniences can seem just insurmountable. And so when we are building those resiliency muscles and we are working with our coping mechanisms, that can help buffer the mental health.
However, in the past year, our coping mechanisms ... which, if people aren't familiar, it could be something as simple as a Wednesday night card night with your neighbors. It could be a meeting that you go to. It could be a church group. It could be the recreational basketball game that you play on the weekend, or baking cookies. Those coping mechanisms are just the little things that take the edge off, so that you can balance your physical and mental wellbeing. And all of those shifted when we couldn't get together. And we couldn't play with our neighbors or have the game or see our friends. And so the coping mechanisms shifted, and if we didn't find new ones, then we can't be resilient and we're going to get burnout.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. And from an employee perspective, it's certainly not one-size-fits-all. I mean, you have single working moms, single working dads. You have parents who have multiple children going through remote schooling and all of those issues. And now, camp. What should employers be thinking about when they're thinking about all the different challenges that employees face that could lead to burnout?
Andrea Herron:
You're exactly right. There is no one-size-fits-all. I mean, when you have two working parents, or even just the single parent in the home who is trying to balance childcare and work, it can be extremely challenging for that employee to be focused at work when they're worried about their home life. So that's where you want to make sure that if you have EAP services, I know that gets talked about a lot, but it's still very underutilized. And there are mental health resources, more than ever. Even the telehealth counseling sessions or using that EAP for other resources, to help people with whatever they need. It may be finding childcare, or it may be family counseling session.
Also, being flexible with schedules as much as possible. We've all had to realize that work doesn't necessarily have to happen between eight and five, Monday to Friday, in a physical building. And so if employers can keep extending that same type of flexibility to employees that need it to make their life work, they're going to get a better work product. They're going to get more creativity. They're going to get higher productivity if the employee feels like, my employer has my back. They're trying to work with me. They're trying to help me be flexible to take care of my life so that I can do the best job for them that's possible.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. So you bring up an interesting topic. I don't think there's any doubt that employee productivity rose over the last year. People were working harder, they were working around the clock. I have heard, and we have reported on some bosses who say, yeah. It's been great. I don't necessarily want to go back to hour-long lunches and afternoon coffee breaks and things like that.
So maybe if you could talk a little bit about the repercussions of burnout. Why it is not great, and why productivity can't be maintained at such a high level for a long period of time.
Andrea Herron:
Yeah. It's a very valid point because everyone feels stressed sometimes. We all have busy seasons and maybe a peak time where it's just really intense. But what I've seen over the past year is that we've had this collective trauma of going completely remote, completely shifting the way we do work, which require tremendous brainstorming, creativity, and flexibility. Which humans don't always love a lot of immediate change right away, but we got used to it. But the work didn't stop, because it was a constant buffer of how do we keep producing or how do we change the business model or our product. And so there was no light at the end of the tunnel.
And when there's no light at the end of the tunnel, it's not just in the context of the Workday, but also just the virus and the situation we were all living in outside of work. Employees can get really overwhelmed. And if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, they just, maybe head down and keep working, because maybe they don't have anything else to do. Or since they're there, they just want to get it done. They're working longer. They're not sleeping, which is a huge, huge component of mental health and just overall wellbeing. I can't be the only one that stayed up binging Netflix a couple nights too late.
But if they're not able to rebuild and rebalance themselves, then they're tired. They're falling asleep during the day. They can't focus. You can't be creative and really use that core focus, in the zone kind of flow energy, where you get your best creative products, if you're tired. And then those resiliency, again, goes down. And so it can be a real negative spiral, where people can't work those hours, but they're trying. So they're working the hours, but they're actually putting less effort in during that same time. Because they just physically can't keep going because their body is saying, we need a break. We need a break. But their mind and their schedule says, no time for a break, no time for a break.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. It's a terrible treadmill, I guess that people allow themselves to get on. And one of the other results of this we've been reporting a lot on is the so-called turnover tsunami. Folks who've been head down for 18 months are now saying, I'm out of here. I'm going to find something else that pays me more or gives me more work life balance or something. I mean, are you seeing that as well?
Andrea Herron:
100%, Yes. People have really taken the time, I think between all of their work responsibilities. But as things are starting to open back up, they're saying, what do I want to go back to? How did my employer treat me? How flexible are they being with the return to work? We can all decide that regardless of the past year, we want everyone in a chair in this building at these certain hours. That's a choice we can make. And then employees are going to choose if that still works for their lifestyle. Now that they've had more flexibility, do they want to be forced back into a situation that perhaps they've outgrown or that no longer works for them?
And also, the employers are thinking, wow, this remote thing worked. Maybe it doesn't matter if we're hiring just in our city. So geographical locations for recruitment, those boundaries and lines have really started to fade. And so if one of your employees isn't happy, isn't seeing the growth that they want, or is being asked to work more for the same amount of money or work certain hours that they don't feel like they can sustain, then they're going to be able to find an employer, even in a different city, a different state, who's willing to pay them the same or more and give them that flexibility.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. And it looks like we're just at the beginning of this kind of shift. So one other aspect of encouraging people to take time off is that it allows others on their teams to step up and have an opportunity to lead. Don't you think?
Andrea Herron:
I completely agree. And I think this is one area that's very overlooked in the business conversation about the benefit of people taking their time off. So when you're talking to leadership or you're trying to build a business case, if that's a struggle for your organization, it's a great angle. Because when the regular go-to employee is there, others don't get the opportunity to cross train or cover certain meetings or try new tasks.
So when someone is out, that backup or that peer gets different internal exposure. And that can also bump up creativity because when someone else does the work, innately they're going to do it their own way. So maybe it's a little better or maybe it's just different, but that can spice it up a little bit and create growth opportunities that are outside of your traditional, I need a promotion in source-set fashion, but more cross-training exposure and growth.
Tony Lee:
Great point. So if you don't mind, let's pivot a little bit and talk about some of the advice that you would share with employers in HR, as they're wrestling with ... some of the things that we have reported on are, I guess number one would be that company leadership should lead by example. The CEO or the chiefs should say, I'm going on vacation. I don't want to hear from you. You should do the same. I mean, is that good advice?
Andrea Herron:
It's excellent advice. The modeling truly does come from the top. And when an employee wants to take a vacation, they're going to look at what's officially said, and what's unofficially modeled. So you can have the best written policy in the world, but if no one is taking vacation, or if they take vacation, they're still equally as active on email, responding to things the whole time, that sends a message that you can take time off, but we don't really want you to be off. You still need to be available. And then the employee is not able to cut the tie to their phone or their email and recuperate in the way that they should.
So the modeling should come from the top leadership, of course, but also the specific line manager. What is their messaging? Do they take their time off? Because that's also a message that gets passed to the employees. And I hate to say it, but HR folks, we got to take our own medicine. And that can be really hard because they need us. We don't want to let anything slip through the cracks and we want to be there for people, but we have to first be there for ourselves. Similar to the old oxygen mask on the airplane idea. We have to self-care and show that it is okay to take that time off.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Even to take it to the next level, I mean, we're starting to hear of companies that are offering perks to get employees to take vacation. If you take your vacation, you get $100 gift card to use on vacation. If you don't take the vacation, you don't get the gift card. I mean, does that make sense?
Andrea Herron:
I mean, that seems like a great idea. I think if the employers, especially over the past year ... budgets have shifted as far as what we're spending money on. Especially if people were office-based and maybe buying fruit or lunches or all of the extra things that go into the office. Instead of that budget, maybe giving a little perk for taking vacation time. I mean, what a wonderful feeling if you're an employee and you're like, not only am I taking my time, but I can take my family to a really nice dinner. Or do something extra that maybe we wouldn't usually spend the money on. So I think that's a great idea, if the budget allows.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. So a couple of trends that we've been seeing, and I'm curious to get your opinion on, that companies have done. For example, a lot of companies have instituted unlimited PTO, open leave. But there's a real pro and con there. I mean some say, yeah, that's great. You can take off any time. And the other is, well, then you never take off any time because it's not like if you don't use it, you'll lose it. What do you think?
Andrea Herron:
PTO versus vacation time is such an interesting debate, because there truly are pros and cons. I mean, it's the pro is that it sounds good. Oh, I could do whatever I want. But in reality, people do take less when it's just open and available. And it goes back a little bit to the modeling component we talked about earlier, which are the leaders really taking time off, or are they just a day here, a day there?
And for some people, they like checklists. They like things that are stated that they can strive for. And so personally, I've seen more vacation actually utilized with an accrual bucket versus just the open bank.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Another thing we're starting to see toward the incentive side, are companies that say, we're closing this week. You can't come in. We want everyone to take the time off. Are you seeing any of that or more of that?
Andrea Herron:
I have seen that certainly around the holidays, between Christmas and New Year's for some businesses. But I have started over the past year to see even a Friday, or a long weekend, Friday, Monday. And if your business can swing it, I do believe that is probably the best way to ensure that everybody has that exhale and can feel like they're taking the time off. As long as the leaders and managers aren't still sending emails as though that's not happening. Otherwise, yeah. It's a nice way to ensure that everyone feels safe and comfortable, and that they're not going to be looked down upon for taking time off, is if everyone takes it.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. So here's probably the toughest question of this discussion, Andrea. So you're an HR professional, right? How do you get the leaders to respect people's time off, to not send emails? And that goes for just not when people are on vacation, but the Saturday afternoons and the Sunday night emails and all of that. I mean, is that something that HR can have an impact on or is it just the way things are?
Andrea Herron:
Yeah, let's be honest. That is a tough one. And you're right, that is probably the toughest part of this conversation. Because as critical as it is for them to model it, it's also hard for them to take it off. And if there is something critical, it is difficult to wait. So if you are having a challenge with your leadership taking the time off or respecting people's time off, I think just coming back to maybe the statistics of burnout. The lower productivity, how much time people haven't taken.
So having some data and some statistics that the leadership can see, sometimes can help depending on the specific leader. And then appeal to those heartstrings. When all else fails, that we don't want people to burn out. We want them to feel like they are part of the team and that we respect their time. And also, do you know how much it costs to replace someone? And what are the turnover costs, and what is the cost in loss of productivity and not getting a new product to market, or the sales cycle slowing down because people are burnt out? So it's a two-prong approach.
Tony Lee:
Absolutely. Well, that's great advice, and we really appreciate it. Well, that is going to do it for today's episode of All Things Work. A big thank you to Andrea Herron for joining me to discuss how to encourage employees to take time off and really unplug.
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Announcer:
All Things Work is sponsored by PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizing multiple customizable financial health solutions to help address your employee's specific needs, all in one place. PNC Organizational Financial Wellness, organizational financial wellness, organized for you. Learn more at pnc.com/wellness. PNC and PNC Bank are registered marks of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC.