<p>In this episode of <em>All Things Work</em>, host Tony Lee talks with award-winning business journalist Joann Lublin about the new challenges COVID-19 has created for working mothers, smart steps employers can take to support them and tie-ins to Joann’s new book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Moms-Executive-Mothers-Navigate/dp/0062954903/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=power+moms&qid=1613140640&sr=8-2">Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life</a>.<br /><br />Follow <em>All Things Work</em> wherever you listen to podcasts. <a href="https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/news/hr-news/Pages/all-things-work-podcast.aspx">Visit us online</a> to learn more about the show and stream all of our episodes. And, be sure to rate the show and leave a review.<br /><br />Music courtesy of <a href="https://www.bensound.com/royalty-free-music/track/hip-jazz">bensound</a>.<br /><br />This episode of <em>All Things Work </em>is sponsored by <a href="http://pnc.com/wellness">PNC</a>.</p>
In this episode of All Things Work, host Tony Lee talks with award-winning business journalist Joann Lublin about the new challenges COVID-19 has created for working mothers, smart steps employers can take to support them and tie-ins to Joann’s new book Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life.
Follow All Things Work wherever you listen to podcasts. Visit us online to learn more about the show and stream all of our episodes. And, be sure to rate the show and leave a review.
Music courtesy of bensound.
This episode of All Things Work is sponsored by PNC.
Speaker 1:
All Things Work is sponsored by PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizational Financial Wellness organized for you. Learn more at pnc.com/wellness. PNC and PNC Bank are registered marks of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC.
Tony Lee:
Welcome to the All Things Work podcast from the Society for Human Resource Management. I'm your host, Tony Lee head of editorial operations here at SHRM, and thank you for joining us. All Things Work is an audio adventure, where we talk with thought leaders and taste makers to bring you an insider's perspective on all things work. So here on this podcast, we continue to cover the impact of the pandemic on employees. And in today's episode, we're going to discuss parents, and especially moms, and the ongoing challenge of balancing remote work with the parental responsibilities they're all accustomed to handling. Before the pandemic parents in their children. Most often spent time in different locations during the day. And the pandemic has forced many families to occupy the same space, day in, day out.
For those parents who previously spent six to 10 hours every day with at least some amount of separation from their kids, many are now doing the work previously handled by teachers and daycare professionals. Joining me today, to discuss the challenges of working parenthood and working motherhood during the pandemic, is Joann Lublin. Joann is the author of an excellent new book, Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life. Joann is a former management news editor at the Wall Street Journal, and was its career advice columnist for nearly 30 years. And she shared in the Journal's 2003 Pulitzer Prize for stories about corporate scandals. Joann also won the 2018 Lifetime Achievement Award from the Gerald Loeb awards, the highest honor in business journalism. Joann and I have something in common. We're both [inaudible 00:01:56] grads from Northwestern and former colleagues at the Wall Street Journal. I'm so thrilled to have Joann Lublin join us today to talk about the challenges of working parenthood during the pandemic. Joann, welcome to All Things Work.
Joann Lublin:
And thanks so much for having me, Tony.
Tony Lee:
It's just such a pleasure. So let's dive right in. First of all, COVID-19, how has it changed what it means to be a working mother?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think overall, the impact has been devastating for working parents, but especially for mothers. They have been leaving the workforce or losing their jobs in such large numbers that rather than calling this a she session, I think we should be calling it a mom session. In fact, mothers of children under 12 lost nearly 2.2 million jobs during COVID-19. And that was three times the rate of fathers one study found.
Tony Lee:
Wow. It's amazing the impact on, on working moms, and very disheartening, I think, for a lot of mothers who had career progression and are now stepping back. So the question is what are companies doing to address this issue?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think the smart companies are doing three different things. One is they have figured out ways to practice what I call smart leadership. They're showing a lot of empathy. They're showing considerable flexibility, even as they start reopening offices. That means they have figured out that, frankly, you can trust employed parents to get the work done at whatever hour makes most sense for those parents. And they ask those parents frequently what else it is they need from the workplace?
The second thing that companies are doing is they're exceeding, if they're smart, the legal requirements for FMLA, for paid family, leave. The latest federal law that passed in December, which extended a temporary law that expired then, now gives employers tax credits for giving paid family leave, but that expires in March.
And a third way that companies are trying to address these issues is by coming up with some creative solutions. I've read, for instance, about CEOs, who've been doing story time with employees' children or turning their empty offices into remote schools. And the most clever approach ending the workday, most days, at mid-afternoon, which is the same time that schools get out.
Tony Lee:
That's a smart move. Is it making a difference? Is it making an impact?
Joann Lublin:
I think it's really too soon to tell. I think certainly there have been studies that have shown that parents, men and women are like, do appreciate, for all the difficulties of working from home, the fact that this gives them greater time with their children, greater flexibility, and cuts down on horrible commutes.
Tony Lee:
Time that people are using very productively, probably for their own mental health and their own wellbeing. I mean, it's time that you can no longer spend listening to NPR in the morning. You got to spend it with your kids.
Joann Lublin:
But guess what? It's time you wouldn't have otherwise had with your kids if we were in a pre-pandemic world. So that's the good side and bad side of the work from home.
Tony Lee:
Sure. So let's talk about women especially, who are in more senior positions at their company who are also working moms, and have been impacted in a big way. How are companies communicating that having a family and being in top leadership are compatible?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think the way they communicate it is by setting the tone at the top, and by having powerful role models. And often those powerful role models are women in leadership roles. A good example is Jenn Hyman, who's one of the 86 women I interviewed for Power Moms. She's the CEO and co-founder of Rent the Runway. In 2018, she took what were already generous family friendly benefits for salaried workers and extended those to their entire workforce. And in other words, included hourly workers for the first time.
Another thing that they do at Rent the Runway is they offer fully paid phased returns from parental leave. A lot of companies, SHRM's surveys have shown, will offer part-time pay for returning from parental leave, but at Rent the Runway the phased return, in other words, you're coming back on a part-time basis, you get paid full-time salary.
The other way in which she sets the tone at the top is she makes sure that there's role models set by her male colleagues. So before the male chief technology officer took his 12 weeks of paid parental leave, it was very rare that fathers at Rent the Runway did that. And what she told me is after the male chief technology officer did so in 2017, every new dad since then, at Rent the Runway has taken all 12 weeks of paid parental.
Tony Lee:
So it sounds like she's creating a culture.
Joann Lublin:
Exactly.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. So let's talk about culture a little bit. A lot of CEOs spend a lot of time talking about how they build a company culture that's inclusive and that's future thinking. Is this a good way to build a culture that's focused around working parents, and working moms especially?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think you want to have a culture that is positive in lots of respects. That is welcoming to people who have all kinds of family needs, not just parents. And there's been a lot written lately about the fact that people have all kinds of other demands on their lives, whether it's children or aging parents or a sick dog. And I think if you build a culture that recognizes that people do not leave their personal self at the door when they are actually in the office, that they are whole human beings, then that kind of culture is going to apply whether we're talking about the needs of working parents or people who are caring for other family members or have other issues in their lives.
Tony Lee:
So, all right. What do you say to the CEOs who say, "Yeah, that's all well and good, but I want a culture of success. I want a culture of innovation. And that requires everybody together and everybody in a physical place together." Is that a winning culture for some types of companies or does it just not fit anymore?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think that certainly was the conventional wisdom before COVID-19 essentially shut down most of working people across America. And I think what this huge unexpected experiment and work from home has taught everyone is guess what work from home can work. It requires a fair amount of adaptation. It requires a fair amount of innovation. But frankly companies are reporting increased productivity. And I've seen a couple of studies that have suggested as many as 48% of companies are willing to allow employees to continue working from home full time, not just part of the week. And those who are willing to have this continue even once we're, quote unquote, past the worst, it's even higher percentage. It's a majority.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. That's great. So in your research, you saw a lot of companies that are doing very innovative things. You mentioned Rent the Runway. What are some of the other companies that you cite as examples of providing really great support for working parents?
Joann Lublin:
Well, there are two, I would say, because both of them not only have done great things for working parents, they've continued to do so since the pandemic struck. One of them is PWC, which began pioneering parent friendly practices years ago. In 2008, for instance, they created a mentor moms program in which they match expectant and new mothers with more senior internal counterparts. A decade ago, they decided that anyone who took off for at least 16 weeks, whether they were a new mother or who were leaving the workforce, for some other reason, they exempted them from being measured for annual performance reviews against their peers who stayed on the job during that year. And guess what, their retention rate of new mothers went up.
When the pandemic began to rage, they also took some good parent friendly steps. Last summer, for instance, they offered six months leave at 20% pay. And they also doubled the $2,000 reimbursement for backup childcare.
Tony Lee:
Wow.
Joann Lublin:
Another good example is American Express. After they expanded their parental leave to 20 weeks, they mounted a huge campaign to include and encourage men to take their full leave. By essentially trying to create role models among top male executives. By having them describe their experiences in formal meetings with new and expectant fathers. By offering frontline bosses temporary replacement allowances so they could fill the gaps caused by parental leave. By setting up a 24/7 new parent concierge that you could use for an unlimited time before and after becoming a parent.
And to the point I made earlier, how do they continue this kind of commitment and involvement to supporting working parents? Well, last April as the pandemic was raging, they promised full salaries for employees unable to work, due to problems such as family care arrangements, that had been affected by COVID-19.
Tony Lee:
Wow. That's amazing. Now of course, an American express and a PWC have resources, they've got deep pockets to do this. Do you think it's practical for smaller companies to be able to take some pieces of this and be able to apply it?
Joann Lublin:
I think it is if, again, they apply some creativity to their approach. They could do things like joining forces with other companies that are either their size or in their industry to perhaps jointly offer backup childcare at a safe or even a corporate location. They can also, it seems to me poll their workers and find out what it is they're doing right and what it is they're doing wrong. And make sure that people feel included and inclusive about the changes that are being made, and that they don't feel like their careers are being penalized if they're taking advantage of either the work from home arrangements, or the flexible hours schedules, or any of these other efforts that are being made to make parents feel like they don't stop being parents when they start working every day.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Great message. All right. So let's follow up on that point and pivot a little bit to the other side. So there are working moms out there who are afraid to take advantage of programs that are being offered to them, because they think there'll be career repercussions, or maybe they have a boss that says one thing and does another. So what advice would you give to working moms who are kind of wrestling with, how do I continue to progress my career and still be able to manage my family?
Joann Lublin:
Well, I think it's very important to not only make sure you've chosen the right employer, but to recheck on that. Maybe that company looked really attractive when you checked it out online and went through the job interview. But now that you've had a year of working from home and have not found a lot of tolerance, empathy, understanding, or flexibility about what your needs are as a working parent, I think you should vote with your feet. And a number of the women that I interviewed for Power Moms did that. They either chose wisely or they chose to go elsewhere if they had not chosen wisely.
Another thing that's important is, especially as women feel like they have to dial their careers back because schools remain closed, because childcare centers are not operating at full capacity, there's a lot of concern that this is going to derail women's career progress. And I think it will definitely affect many women. But I also think, from the examples of the women I interviewed for my book, that it is possible to go on a part-time schedule, to take a strategic break, or even to leave the workforce entirely for short periods without derailing your career as long as you figure out ways to stay connected and network. You're not working 24/7, and you're not caring for your family 24/7.
At the same time, there's an important theme in my book about the notion of practicing work life sway, and accepting your imperfections. The notion of work life sway is that there is no such thing as work life balance. It's a myth. It's like trying to assume a perpetual yoga pose. Work life sway says, I understand that I have a personal life. I understand that I have a work life. And I understand that I'm going to have to go with the flow and sometimes be all in for my job. And I do that because I've bought noise canceling headphones, or I've got a nice little laundry room that is now my new office from home. And I also have a highly understanding and empathetic spouse who has agreed to trade off lots of work focused time.
But I also understand that I can sway if I have to in the moment and give up that work demand because there is a crisis. Because my two year old has just dropped a full diaper on my lap, which a woman wrote about in the Philadelphia Inquirer a few months ago. She was trying to pitch a new client for her consulting business. And with one hand she was doing a PowerPoint on her laptop, and in the other was dealing with the diaper that had been left her lap by the two year old.
Tony Lee:
Only in pandemic times. Right. Or I guess maybe in any time, certainly possible.
Joann Lublin:
But mostly in pandemic times I'm afraid, Tony.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. We're starting to run out of time here. But one other thing I wanted to ask you about, we hear an awful lot from employers who have employees who are single parents, and are really struggling with not just the demands of the workplace and the cutback in school and virtual school, but trying to do it all themselves. Any advice for single parents who are trying to balance this really tough situation?
Joann Lublin:
I think it's a really difficult, and sometimes virtually impossible, situation to find yourself in. And so to the extent you can partner with other parents, whether they're single parents or not, and create for instance, a learning pod. And for instance, if you are trying to educate or teach your kids from home, or help them with school from home, then you would essentially create this pod and swap off whose kids go to which house on which day. And you buy some time alone, frankly, to work.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, it's a really trying situation, but your advice is extremely helpful. And I think we're all looking forward to moving beyond this situation. Well, that's going to do it today for our episode of All Things Work. Joann, thank you so much for joining me to discuss being a working parent during the pandemic. And remember her excellent new book Power Moms is now available on Amazon and other online retailers. Please go check it out.
Finally, before we get out of here, I want to encourage everyone to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, Google play, wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, be sure to give us a five star rating and leave a review. Also be sure to check out SHRM on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. And you can find all of our episodes and more podcasts on our website at shrm.org/podcast. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on All Things Work.
Speaker 1:
All Things Work is sponsored by PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizing multiple customizable financial health solutions to help address your employees' specific needs all in one place. PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizational financial wellness organized for you. Learn more at pnc.com/wellness, PNC and PNC Bank are registered marks of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC.